Panzer I A - 95% DONE!!!!

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    iCocker
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    Re: Panzer I A - 95% DONE!!!!

    Post  iCocker on Mon Aug 19, 2013 8:07 am

    I know what you mean Noel, but sometimes less is better, he already plays the part properly ... no need to creat Saving Private Ryan effects Smile

    I would rectify one thing, the skin tones look alive ... too pink, a death body would turn cold and pale, by adding a little bit of more white and green in the skin tone mix you create a cold effect and cretae more pale highlights including the fingers ... you need to kill the pinkish hue and create a corpse.

    Ivan

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    Re: Panzer I A - 95% DONE!!!!

    Post  Noel Petroni on Wed Aug 21, 2013 8:26 pm

    iCocker wrote:I know what you mean Noel, but sometimes less is better, he already plays the part properly ... no need to creat Saving Private Ryan effects Smile

    I would rectify one thing, the skin tones look alive ... too pink, a death body would turn cold and pale, by adding a little bit of more white and green in the skin tone mix you create a cold effect and cretae more pale highlights including the fingers ... you need to kill the pinkish hue and create a corpse.

    Ivan
    Thanks Ivan! Brian already remarked about the warm skin tone and I went over it with Payne's grey (you know bluish/grey tone). However I'll go over it again. In truth, the photos are pushing the reds more than they really are.

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    Re: Panzer I A - 95% DONE!!!!

    Post  Ray on Thu Aug 22, 2013 6:36 pm

    Noel be careful that the Payne Grey's filter won't "react" with the colours you already used & make the face look DIRTY pale

    If I was you, I would create a "fresh" flesh mix & include more white & add green as Ivan suggested & go over it again even if with filters Twisted Evil

    Just my 2c worth Cool

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    Re: Panzer I A - 95% DONE!!!!

    Post  Noel Petroni on Fri Aug 23, 2013 6:06 am

    Ray wrote:Noel be careful that the Payne Grey's filter won't "react" with the colours you already used & make the face look DIRTY  pale

    If I was you, I would create a "fresh" flesh mix & include more white & add green as Ivan suggested & go over it again even if with filters Twisted Evil

    Just my 2c worth Cool
    Thanks for the heads up Ray!

    I'll try it out

    Noel

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    Re: Panzer I A - 95% DONE!!!!

    Post  Paul Salomone on Wed Aug 28, 2013 4:35 pm

    Prosit Noel,

    a very nicely detailed model indeed. I fully agree with Brian, war is conquest, victory and death; so to hell with this buraucratic Bull''''''''''''. It's about time that we build models and display them as in real life and not as in the Alice in wonderland style.

    Once again - Prosit Noel.

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    Re: Panzer I A - 95% DONE!!!!

    Post  iCocker on Thu Aug 29, 2013 9:32 am

    [i]Paul, I think war is enough a horrible word that no one needs explanation of what really happens, but when interpreting a diorama one needs to give a good message, that message do not need to be goory neither ... so I think keeping things kept suttle and less bloodthirsty is a kind of respect, remember the person we model upon especially when doing a fotodio was a living human being irrispective the nation, he was somebody's son or father ...

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    Re: Panzer I A - 95% DONE!!!!

    Post  Ray on Thu Aug 29, 2013 10:24 am

    iCocker wrote:Paul, I think war is enough a horrible word that no one needs explanation of what really happens, but when interpreting a diorama one needs to give a good message, that message do not need to be goory neither ... so I think keeping things kept suttle and less bloodthirsty is a kind of respect, remember the person we model upon especially when doing a fotodio was a living human being irrispective the nation, he was somebody's son or father ...
    Welldone Ivan I agree 101% cheers

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    Re: Panzer I A - 95% DONE!!!!

    Post  bcauchi on Thu Aug 29, 2013 2:47 pm

    Excuse me for butting in but i think that Noel did not overdo it just because there is a bit of blood coming out of the guy's mouth. You would expect a soldier killed in a tank to have some blood somewhere. If he were too healthy he would not be dead at all. After all it is not like he portrayed him with his guts spilling out. But he would have been shot at by a sniper when exiting the tank or else was caught up by shrapnel when the round entered the tank. IMHO i really do not see the fuss because Noel did not overdo it. I have seen boxers in a ring with more blood on their faces and that is only a 'sport'.

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    Re: Panzer I A - 95% DONE!!!!

    Post  iCocker on Thu Aug 29, 2013 6:15 pm

    I was speaking in general and not refering to Noel's work ... I think it is subtle enough, but again I state my point for doing such a mortal pose and message which is already horrible enough one does not need to rely on blood to show death ... if you make a medieval soldier after a battle he'll be soaked in blood as the battles at that time were different and slashing and close combat was the norm but in modern battles death comes in different forms and shapes ... we do not need to see our models like the Good Friday statues hux?

    PS. Snipers do not waste their time and show up their hiding place to kill a tankcrew escaping, snipers especially in WW2 were after topbrass ... tankcrew would be hit by crossfire and infantry, or die out from wounds already sustained from the hit ... remember a hit and caught inside the tank is horrible enough, there are accounts of crew beheaded or cut in half and stayed put in their seats ...we need to show this?

    I feel when we put a death body although personification it has to be done with respect ... scrutinizing again the original image the death german has no blood oming from from his mouth ... so why adding it if you are doing a fotodio? It is not fuss we are building an argument of how people react to such views ...



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    Re: Panzer I A - 95% DONE!!!!

    Post  Ray on Thu Aug 29, 2013 8:21 pm

    Getting healthier & healthier with each post cheers

    IMHO this is how a civilised society like SSM should discuss things related to the hobby Twisted Evil

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    Re: Panzer I A - 95% DONE!!!!

    Post  Noel Petroni on Fri Aug 30, 2013 6:35 am

    iCocker wrote:I was speaking in general and not refering to Noel's work ... I think it is subtle enough, but again I state my point for doing such a mortal pose and message which is already horrible enough one does not need to rely on blood to show death ... if you make a medieval soldier after a battle he'll be soaked in blood as the battles at that time were different and slashing and close combat was the norm but in modern battles death comes in different forms and shapes ... we do not need to see our models like the Good Friday statues hux?

    PS. Snipers do not waste their time and show up their hiding place to kill a tankcrew escaping, snipers especially in WW2 were after topbrass ...  tankcrew would be hit by crossfire and infantry, or die out from wounds already sustained from the hit ... remember a hit and caught inside the tank is horrible enough, there are accounts of crew beheaded or cut in half and stayed put in their seats ...we need to show this?

    I feel when we put a death body although personification it has to be done with respect ... scrutinizing again the original image the death german has no blood oming from from his mouth ... so why adding it if you are doing a fotodio? It is not fuss we are building an argument of how people react to such views ...



    Ivan
    Good Friday!!!! LOL.... it reminds me of a figure Ray ounce painted and we called it Redentur!! Laughing 

    Ivan.... guys.... thanks for the your time to discuss the theme. I think everyone is entitled to his opinion and his way of doing things.

    Although not good taste, I have a morbid fascination of looking at the effects of what raging metal does to human flesh. It makes me come to my senses in the way when we play war and reenact and in a way we feel we miss the fighting and would like a taste of some action........ BUT watching torn up flesh reminds you of how horrible war is and that even the hardened soldiers will piss in their pants!

    My point....... I like to portray such horrible scenes, I won't hide it, and I plan to produce more vivid displays in the near future.

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    Re: Panzer I A - 95% DONE!!!!

    Post  iCocker on Fri Aug 30, 2013 8:50 am

    Shall we continue a bit more Ray, remember our friend the late Roy Hunt masterfully done figurines about war, he tackled two terrible incidents which created masskilling without showing a death body ... remember Hiroshima girl and the two crying orphans from Cambodia ... I think these were dramatic enough to show the real face of war ... this is another form to express a message, but as Noel said everyone has an opinion, I still remember when Roy got the BOS some people were raged as they did not get the feel and said the girl looked a simple model ...

    I agree Noel sometimes it is good to give a shock to the viewer but still keep things subtle ... a powerful message can be done in a simple way aswell ...

    What sure you created a debate qed tara you gave a message ... Wink

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    Re: Panzer I A - 95% DONE!!!!

    Post  skyhigh on Fri Aug 30, 2013 12:30 pm

    Ray wrote:
    iCocker wrote:Paul, I think war is enough a horrible word that no one needs explanation of what really happens, but when interpreting a diorama one needs to give a good message, that message do not need to be goory neither ... so I think keeping things kept suttle and less bloodthirsty is a kind of respect, remember the person we model upon especially when doing a fotodio was a living human being irrispective the nation, he was somebody's son or father ...
    Welldone Ivan I agree 101% cheers

    Agree 100% ....prosit Ivan...

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    Re: Panzer I A - 95% DONE!!!!

    Post  skyhigh on Fri Aug 30, 2013 12:35 pm

    iCocker wrote:I was speaking in general and not refering to Noel's work ... I think it is subtle enough, but again I state my point for doing such a mortal pose and message which is already horrible enough one does not need to rely on blood to show death ... if you make a medieval soldier after a battle he'll be soaked in blood as the battles at that time were different and slashing and close combat was the norm but in modern battles death comes in different forms and shapes ... we do not need to see our models like the Good Friday statues hux?

    PS. Snipers do not waste their time and show up their hiding place to kill a tankcrew escaping, snipers especially in WW2 were after topbrass ...  tankcrew would be hit by crossfire and infantry, or die out from wounds already sustained from the hit ... remember a hit and caught inside the tank is horrible enough, there are accounts of crew beheaded or cut in half and stayed put in their seats ...we need to show this?

    I feel when we put a death body although personification it has to be done with respect ... scrutinizing again the original image the death german has no blood oming from from his mouth ... so why adding it if you are doing a fotodio? It is not fuss we are building an argument of how people react to such views ...



    Ivan


    This is all ,what I tried to explain in the first post....cheers 

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    Re: Panzer I A - 95% DONE!!!!

    Post  Noel Petroni on Fri Aug 30, 2013 4:57 pm

    Ivan...... do you have any links to pictures of the dioramas you mentioned ? I'd very much like to see them.

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    Re: Panzer I A - 95% DONE!!!!

    Post  iCocker on Fri Aug 30, 2013 8:31 pm

    Roy Hunt's Hiroshima Storm Girl t is a single figure with a big story in 54mm ... fotos does not make any justice, had the honour to hold this masterpiece before we entered WE Girona ... it is impressive yet so tiny!

    http://www.militarymodelling.com/forums/postings.asp?th=17800


    ... and to me this is the fulcrum of dios with a message, not an easy subject to make it without going overboard ... Burden of Surrows, masterfully done by Rick Lawler

    http://ricklawler.plastic-garden.com/?p=2050

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    Re: Panzer I A - 95% DONE!!!!

    Post  Noel Petroni on Fri Aug 30, 2013 9:09 pm

    iCocker wrote:Roy Hunt's Hiroshima Storm Girl t is a single figure with a big story in 54mm ... fotos does not make any justice, had the honour to hold this masterpiece before we entered WE Girona ... it is impressive yet so tiny!

    http://www.militarymodelling.com/forums/postings.asp?th=17800


    ... and to me this is the fulcrum of dios with a message, not an easy subject to make it without going overboard ... Burden of Surrows, masterfully done by Rick Lawler

    http://ricklawler.plastic-garden.com/?p=2050
    Your are right.... Storm Girl does not look impressive in photos. In fact I can't see the impact.

    Burden of Sorrows ... I'v seen this and actually I did not know it was of Lawler!! His best work, probably! This one figure diorama describes the whole story of the Jewish misery. Very well made indeed!

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    Re: Panzer I A - 95% DONE!!!!

    Post  iCocker on Sat Aug 31, 2013 9:22 am

    The impact is there though the images are duff my friend ... Storm girl, you have a child who lost her innocence surrounded by what was once her playingground and home, now all debri, solitude and the remains of a burnt out tricycle, she is worst then death as she survived ... survived the aftermath of the worst weapon developed by men ... I think it is simple enough, you have to look outside the box when dealing with such vignettes ... and let the viewer come up with his own philosophy ... the other one is also very strong, an inmate collecting the belongings of the poor guys who were sent to the gas chambers ... he could have easily made a queue of people going to the chambers or a pile of death bodies BUT he created something different, the solitude and emptiness give the message of death ... this is another way in both subjects to deal with horrors, this time instead of direct impact it makes you think ... that was my debate.

    It is like movies for example Tarrantino, he loves red blood baths to give his impact of death, then we have Spielberg and Cameron who create impact different, like a red sea and puddles, death fish and death cows [showing that war does not choose anything and men also destroys the peace of nature] besides death men, frightened soldiers ... like the soldier searching his blown hand, he kept the colours dull though all death and soldiers are full of grime and blood ... all directors are good yet all have a different kind of impact ... not one is better then the other ...

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    Re: Panzer I A - 95% DONE!!!!

    Post  skyhigh on Sat Aug 31, 2013 11:56 am

    iCocker wrote:The impact is there though the images are duff my friend ... Storm girl, you have a child who lost her innocence surrounded by what was once her  playingground and home, now all debri, solitude and the remains of a burnt out tricycle, she is worst then death as she survived ... survived the aftermath of the worst weapon developed by men ... I think it is simple enough, you have to look outside the box when dealing with such vignettes ... and let the viewer come up with his own philosophy ... the other one is also very strong, an inmate collecting the belongings of the poor guys who were sent to the gas chambers ... he could have easily made a queue of people going to the chambers or a pile of death bodies BUT he created something different, the solitude and emptiness give the message of death ... this is another way in both subjects to deal with horrors, this time instead of direct impact it makes you think ... that was my debate.

    It is like movies for example Tarrantino, he loves red blood baths to give his impact of death, then we have Spielberg and Cameron who create impact different, like a red sea and puddles, death fish and death cows [showing that war does not choose anything and men also destroys the peace of nature] besides death men, frightened soldiers ... like the soldier searching his blown hand, he kept the colours dull though all death and soldiers are full of grime and blood  ... all directors are good yet all have a different kind of impact ... not one is better then the other ...

    Ivan


    Bravo...cheers 

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    Re: Panzer I A - 95% DONE!!!!

    Post  bcauchi on Sat Aug 31, 2013 4:11 pm

    Brilliant work both of them are really great and get the message through.

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    Re: Panzer I A - 95% DONE!!!!

    Post  Noel Petroni on Sun Sep 01, 2013 9:07 am

    Ivan, Brian........ I don't know scratch .... to me Storm Girl does nothing.

    All I see is a painted figure wearing a mask that were not issued at that time, holding a tattered umbrella and standing on a white/grey terrain. I am not drawn into it...... I keep saying to myself what is it trying to say?

    I can understand the rage of fellow figure competitors........ and to have won BFS.  

    OK... a nicely painted figure of a teenage girl...... OK nothing to go crazy about for the painting skills. Now the rest are charred items caused by the atomic bomb....... tricycle, that once belonged to a child.... not much of a big deal here... and ash all around to depict the falling ash from burnt surroundings... the heap of stuff on the pavement does not tell me anything. The an umbrella the child picked up from somewhere to protect her from falling ash.
    Now... where was she when the bomb went off? Is she representing a ghost? If so, why the mask? How did the fragile umbrella survive the blast?

    I don't feel sorrow. There is nothing telling me about pain.

    The other diorama makes me feel sorrow. The clothes of the dying or dead. There is a sense of depression and melancholy mood.

    PS: READ PLEASE: The above are just my thoughts and opinion as to how I view the piece. I am not criticizing. I am placing my views on the table for a discussion so other might concur or explain what I'm missing.

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    Re: Panzer I A - 95% DONE!!!!

    Post  Ray on Sun Sep 01, 2013 9:49 am

    Noel, you have every right to feel so, that is why we tend to agree to disagree cheers

    It is IRRELEVANT where the girl was when the blast occured...it is the aftermath of that same blast that we are seeing in Storm Girl, which was taken from an actual photo BTW Twisted Evil

    Ivan, me & whoever agreed at EuroMilitaire 2007, can see SO MUCH thru SO FEW in that Storm Girl & again it got the MAJORITY of the votes for BOS, so, with all due respect, bad luck for the MINORITY including you lol!

    Vive le Difference cheers

    Keep up the great work BTW Razz 
     

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    Re: Panzer I A - 95% DONE!!!!

    Post  Noel Petroni on Sun Sep 01, 2013 10:00 am

    Ray wrote:Noel, you have every right to feel so, that is why we tend to agree to disagree cheers

    It is IRRELEVANT where the girl was when the blast occured...it is the aftermath of that same blast that we are seeing in Storm Girl, which was taken from an actual photo BTW Twisted Evil 

    Ivan, me & whoever agreed at EuroMilitaire 2007, can see SO MUCH thru SO FEW in that Storm Girl & again it got the MAJORITY of the votes for BOS, so, with all due respect, bad luck for the MINORITY including you lol!

    Vive le Difference cheers

    Keep up the great work BTW Razz 
       
    Hi Ray....... still on the sand... deck chair and umbrella, sipping a cold beer! Hey can you make one of those nice sand castles, you know, detailed and all, and post a pic so I'll show it to my kids! They love sand castles! And another thing.... is it true..... although you are on a sandy beach you have to walk miles for a dip in the sea! Neutral  Man, that's not good.... what if they steal your mobile!

    Ray I beg to differ re:It is IRRELEVANT where the girl. The girl could not have survived!!! In such a clean state even!!! For me a powerful shot is that running naked girl (a very famous photo). It shows what she has been through. Storm girl ... is singing in the ash!! cheers 

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    Re: Panzer I A - 95% DONE!!!!

    Post  Ray on Sun Sep 01, 2013 10:36 am

    Noel Petroni wrote:
    Ray wrote:Noel, you have every right to feel so, that is why we tend to agree to disagree cheers

    It is IRRELEVANT where the girl was when the blast occured...it is the aftermath of that same blast that we are seeing in Storm Girl, which was taken from an actual photo BTW Twisted Evil 

    Ivan, me & whoever agreed at EuroMilitaire 2007, can see SO MUCH thru SO FEW in that Storm Girl & again it got the MAJORITY of the votes for BOS, so, with all due respect, bad luck for the MINORITY including you lol!

    Vive le Difference cheers

    Keep up the great work BTW Razz 
       
    Hi Ray....... still on the sand... deck chair and umbrella, sipping a cold beer! Hey can you make one of those nice sand castles, you know, detailed and all, and post a pic so I'll show it to my kids!  They love sand castles! And another thing.... is it true..... although you are on a sandy beach you have to walk miles for a dip in the sea! Neutral  Man, that's not good.... what if they steal your mobile!

    Ray I beg to differ re:It is IRRELEVANT where the girl.  The girl could not have survived!!! In such a clean state even!!!  For me a powerful shot is that running naked girl (a very famous photo). It shows what she has been through.  Storm girl ... is singing in the ash!! cheers 
    Poor Girl may her Soul Rest In Eternal Peace I love you

    She may have emerged from some worm hole to have survived & the fact that she survived, we are paying her back by debating where she was, why she is so clean, why is she wearing an unissued mask, why is she carrying a tattered umbrella & calling her names "singing in the ash" Sad

    She could have been in Honolulu for all we care Laughing the fact is she is in Horishima or rather amidst what was left of Hirosima at that time, in that FROZEN (even if in ASH) moment Twisted Evil

    Noel, I am back & I am staying here this time bro.......too unstable down there, Desert & Tripoli alike with Toyota pick ups being hijacked & personnel left stranded & shocked & sometimes even slightly wounded from ricochet bullets fired from AK-47's towards the damn TARMAC, as happened the day before I flew in from the desert, with a company car hijacked as it neared a "sleeping policeman" (I know, I know I used to be one Twisted Evil ) & hooded gunmen firing in air & the ground Evil or Very Mad

    It was good while it lasted & I enjoyed every minute cheers
    Marco started a thread for me "Memmories of Libya" (that is why the "mm") & there you can see how much I enjoyed it lol!

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