HELP! - Tank Hits......... suggestions..

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    Noel Petroni
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    HELP! - Tank Hits......... suggestions..

    Post  Noel Petroni on Tue May 28, 2013 2:02 pm

    I would like to know something about tank hits.

    I'm making a scene where a Panzer I (rather small tank) is hit and the commander hanging dead from the turret. I'm following a wartime picture but I do not want to go through the work of extensive damage.

    So my question:

    Can a single round penetrate the side of the tank and kill both occupants without blowing up? I imaging that a round can penetrate the side, knock dead one crew member and injure the commander and whilst the injured commander escapes from the hatch he is machine gunned down.

    I suppose a round can penetrate and leave a perfectly round perforation in the hull without exploding. The Panzer I was a dual machine gun tank and thus not having highly explosive rounds inside that could detonate.

    Would like to hear your opinions.

    Thanks

    iCocker
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    Re: HELP! - Tank Hits......... suggestions..

    Post  iCocker on Tue May 28, 2013 5:57 pm

    Noel

    That foto is famous, I suggest due that a PZ1 is a thin vehicle to create a tiny MG hit, a boyse gun or any heavy MG would penetrate the turret quite easily, but a crew man bailing out hanging death would be hit by a sniper or any bullet ... if a penetration would happen he would lie death inside probably. If a cannon hit the PZ1 it would disintegrate in pieces, a 45mm is more then enough to send it to oblivium ... going back to an MG hit it would be small and perfectly circular, probably with 'silvery' circumferance ... would be a nice idea a tank with a story ... a sad one but unfortunetly things that happen at war!

    Noel Petroni
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    Re: HELP! - Tank Hits......... suggestions..

    Post  Noel Petroni on Tue May 28, 2013 7:23 pm

    iCocker wrote:Noel

    That foto is famous, I suggest due that a PZ1 is a thin vehicle to create a tiny MG hit, a boyse gun or any heavy MG would penetrate the turret quite easily, but a crew man bailing out hanging death would be hit by a sniper or any bullet ... if a penetration would happen he would lie death inside probably. If a cannon hit the PZ1 it would disintegrate in pieces, a 45mm is more then enough to send it to oblivium ... going back to an MG hit it would be small and perfectly circular, probably with 'silvery' circumferance ... would be a nice idea a tank with a story ... a sad one but unfortunetly things that happen at war!

    Thanks Ivan,

    I was checking YouTube and came across this... very interesting tank hits!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NBI9d0-IfEM
    You can see the commander of the Sherman climbing out of the turret with one leg shot off!! Probably the shell entered and took one of his legs.

    So this means that a shot can penetrate the tank hit the crew but not blow up.... meaning it was a High Velocity shell and not a High Explosive shell.

    Back to what you suggested. The tank I'm building is situated in Poland. Did the Polish army have tank rifles like the Soviets had? If so I can make a clean small hole.

    Or : what calibre could the Polish army have used? I would simulate a shell shot that entered the tank killed one of the crew member and severly injured the commander in the knee and was was also machine gunned down.

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    Re: HELP! - Tank Hits......... suggestions..

    Post  Noel Petroni on Tue May 28, 2013 7:49 pm

    Found This

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wz._35_anti-tank_rifle


    Dottore
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    Yes definitely...

    Post  Dottore on Tue May 28, 2013 9:28 pm

    I read accounts of Sherman crews...in one particular instance a Sherman was shot at by a tiger. The round penetrated the front between driver and other crew and went out from the other side of the tank. Tank was disabled but none injured.

    Dottore

    Ray
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    Re: HELP! - Tank Hits......... suggestions..

    Post  Ray on Wed May 29, 2013 7:04 am

    Dottore wrote:I read accounts of Sherman crews...in one particular instance a Sherman was shot at by a tiger. The round penetrated the front between driver and other crew and went out from the other side of the tank. Tank was disabled but none injured.

    Dottore

    A SHERMAN is always A SHERMAN Twisted Evil

    iCocker
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    Re: HELP! - Tank Hits......... suggestions..

    Post  iCocker on Wed May 29, 2013 7:48 am

    Yep Noel they had antitank guns, cannons and MGs, infact they also had Bofors and if not mistaken something similar to the Boyse rifle. You can give credit that the shot was made in the centre of the balkenkruz, we know that polish had a habit to aim on it as it was distinctive when it was still white. Infect though credited with a good Blitzgrieg the campaign of Poland especially Warsaw the German tanks took a heavy toll, PZ1 and 2 were not ideal for urban warfare.

    As for shell hits there are accounts of hits going through and behading crew and get out from the other side, but MG shots are terrible normally they go in and bounce on metal making a mess of the crew.

    That famous shot of the US tank crew is credited by a Panther hit, at least he managed to bail out ... God knows if he survived.

    Ivan

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    Re: HELP! - Tank Hits......... suggestions..

    Post  iCocker on Wed May 29, 2013 7:48 am

    Ray wrote:
    Dottore wrote:I read accounts of Sherman crews...in one particular instance a Sherman was shot at by a tiger. The round penetrated the front between driver and other crew and went out from the other side of the tank. Tank was disabled but none injured.

    Dottore

    A SHERMAN is always A SHERMAN Twisted Evil

    RONSON!

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    Re: HELP! - Tank Hits......... suggestions..

    Post  alexbb on Wed May 29, 2013 8:08 am

    iCocker wrote:
    Ray wrote:
    Dottore wrote:I read accounts of Sherman crews...in one particular instance a Sherman was shot at by a tiger. The round penetrated the front between driver and other crew and went out from the other side of the tank. Tank was disabled but none injured.

    Dottore

    A SHERMAN is always A SHERMAN Twisted Evil

    RONSON!

    tommy cooker

    Noel Petroni
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    Re: HELP! - Tank Hits......... suggestions..

    Post  Noel Petroni on Wed May 29, 2013 8:45 pm

    iCocker wrote:Yep Noel they had antitank guns, cannons and MGs, infact they also had Bofors and if not mistaken something similar to the Boyse rifle. You can give credit that the shot was made in the centre of the balkenkruz, we know that polish had a habit to aim on it as it was distinctive when it was still white. Infect though credited with a good Blitzgrieg the campaign of Poland especially Warsaw the German tanks took a heavy toll, PZ1 and 2 were not ideal for urban warfare.

    As for shell hits there are accounts of hits going through and behading crew and get out from the other side, but MG shots are terrible normally they go in and bounce on metal making a mess of the crew.

    That famous shot of the US tank crew is credited by a Panther hit, at least he managed to bail out ... God knows if he survived.

    Ivan

    The link I posted is a Youtube like and it describes that encounter in detail. The commander that jumped out of the Sherman with one leg blown off did not survive. Nearby medics dressed his wound but died a short time later and another two of the crew also died. Just 2 survived. Two of the panther crew died and two survived and the fifth also escaped but his faith is unknown. Very interesting video with slow motion and explanation of the event and escape.

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    Re: HELP! - Tank Hits......... suggestions..

    Post  iCocker on Thu May 30, 2013 8:35 am

    It is very good Noel, no I realise it is that famous KO Panther near Cologne Cathedral ... the brewing of the Panther after was hit is a dramatic scene, how a tank becomes an iron coffin! this is the Pershing gunner speaking http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jt5bJQOkI1g

    Watch this till the end from Libya, watch the T55 closely ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dVBApQohxUI I think it's a direct hit!

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