T-34 1942 production version

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    Magal
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    T-34 1942 production version

    Post  Magal on Tue Jun 03, 2014 8:58 pm

    Started a new project: Tamiya's 1/35 offering of what was arguably the best tank design of WWII. The kit is quite old but it is still quite good and with a little extra work and detailing, it can be built into a respectable model of this awesome beast.


    The kit is quite straightforward, that is unless the builder goes on the rampage with a scalpel and mini-drill

    This is the lower hull with the suspension arms all nice and regular as if on parade. First job was to cut out all the arms and drill out pivot holes. Stubs were added to the arms so that articulation of the suspension is now possible

    Next up for the chop was the engine intake cover

    This was my first attempt at replacing the grille but was not happy with the mesh and decided to remove a couple of hours worth of work and start afresh. Still haven't photographed the remade grille

    Not content with all the cutting done thus far, I decided one of the front mudguards had to come off.

    Production in the Urals is going on at full swing - more shots of the build to follow.
    [PS - Thanks ABB for the help with the track type]

    bcauchi
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    Re: T-34 1942 production version

    Post  bcauchi on Wed Jun 04, 2014 5:49 am

    lovely work so far.

    iCocker
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    Re: T-34 1942 production version

    Post  iCocker on Wed Jun 04, 2014 8:23 am

    Why did you opt for the Tamiya offering ... the only good thing it has is the barrel Smile. I would have rather used the Zvezda hull much accurate in scale, apart if you get hold of the Dragon or AFV, T34s you'll have the best so far ... and avoid all this hassle!

    Ray
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    Re: T-34 1942 production version

    Post  Ray on Wed Jun 04, 2014 2:33 pm

    Looking good  Twisted Evil 

    skyhigh
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    Re: T-34 1942 production version

    Post  skyhigh on Fri Jun 06, 2014 5:58 pm

    Ghed tara kif mhux jien biss .. ghaw min hu fuq it T-34 bhali............ cheers 

    iCocker
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    Re: T-34 1942 production version

    Post  iCocker on Sun Jun 08, 2014 8:43 pm

    skyhigh wrote:Ghed tara kif mhux jien biss .. ghaw min hu fuq it T-34 bhali............ cheers 

    Jaqaw trid tghidli xi haga lol ...

    Carius
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    Re: T-34 1942 production version

    Post  Carius on Mon Jun 09, 2014 12:04 am

    Excellent upgrade!

    Magal
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    Re: T-34 1942 production version

    Post  Magal on Tue Jun 10, 2014 4:00 pm

    Researching this kit has blown away many of the misconceptions I had about this tank. What I thought was a straight forward run of the mill tank design turned into a kaleidoscope of versions and variants I had never even considered before. I eventually identified my version as one coming out of factory 183 somewhere about mid 1942.
    Construction has progressed; I added the small details - hand rails, MG barrel, latches, etc, etc, textured the turret to simulate its cast, plugged up some holes here and there and of course, added my trade-mark bites to the remaining mudguards.

    Fabricated the latches for the tool boxes - brass strips and wire


    On finals before undercoating.

    Ivan, I feel its a shame to bin a basically good kit simply because modern moulds are sharper and maybe more accurate. I derive more pleasure from upgrading such old kits to acceptable standards than building a straight OOB 'perfect' kit. Call me crazy but that's my idea of modelling.

    bcauchi
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    Re: T-34 1942 production version

    Post  bcauchi on Tue Jun 10, 2014 4:34 pm

    Agreed 100% and you are doing a really great job. I do the same with aircraft. My stash is all very old and only fit for the bin if i had to reason that way. Save for one or two kits, they are all outdated but as you say, that is the challenge!

    iCocker
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    Re: T-34 1942 production version

    Post  iCocker on Tue Jun 10, 2014 10:04 pm

    I do not completly agree mate though you are doing a sterling job this model has many flaws and has nothing good for a basic kit apart a shake n build easy construction, the issue is vast  - including wrong angles, height is less by 5mm making it look flatter and length shorter, to correct those you need to scratch built the hull, worth it? The driver hatch, mg cover, idler wheel, back engine door, side engine air intake, top engine cover the pattern should be rounded not rectangle, towing hooks and fenders are completly wrong as those are for the 1943 Mickey Mouse hatch turret, 1941 and 42 factory 183 were totally different. Tracks which ones are you using as that is another issue. No TLC will camoflage that ... to tell you the truth there are no perfect model of a t34 but the dragon and zvezda ones are the best around to update. I have a habit of developing old hags myself but when it is wrong and there is a better option I feel it is not worth the effort correcting and it is time lost from painting and weathering ... But that is me! By the way dragon and zvezda are more then a decade old, so yes they are vintage aswell Wink

    Though simple design T 34 are the most complex tank ever produced, I advice if you want to depict a historical t 34 never mention block 183 ( most tanks came from that factory ) or 1942, just pull a real foto and copy that. The Russians had a bad hobby of producing hulls in one factory and turrets in another, certain hulls might be 1941, wheels 1942 made in Stalingrad and turrets produced in Leningrad they also converted things and mixed and match on the field ... It is a complex story ... So check a good foto as reference, the rule of standards is not a regola with Commies. That is why I love these tanks ...

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    Re: T-34 1942 production version

    Post  Magal on Wed Jun 11, 2014 12:08 am

    You have me completely confused now Ivan. Now I admit I'm no expert on the subject, but over these last few weeks, I have been trawling through dozens of reference books, such that I'm seeing T-34's at every corner, roundabout and traffic lights I come across.
    Please correct me if I'm wrong but all these books, indicate a circular engine access hatch,modified side vents and a rectangular intake top cover were already being produced before the introduction of the hex turret in 43. The driver's hatch had already been changed to the twin periscope type and the armour plate had already started to appear on the hull MG.
    May I ask a question here? ....Is it normal to have a Red army tank w/o any markings or insignae whatsoever?  

    iCocker
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    Re: T-34 1942 production version

    Post  iCocker on Wed Jun 11, 2014 7:03 am

    Yep there was one version the last with this kind of turret, but this tamiya turret is wrong, and also needs addition on the sides of the hull, these had rails on hull and deck used for soldiers to hold on, as I told you we are speaking of what should have came out of factory and this version is the late of the hatch just before the hex came out, even the hex version was first used on rectangular engined door ... I told you ruskies are confusing ... Infact the late hull should have gone to the hex turret but supplies were limited so they updated the old cast turret. Try to find a foto and replicate that ... That is the best option ... Give me some time to search my archive and guide you with the best bibles .... Ruskies are said to have sent tanks even un painted in Stalingrad, it was a norm to have an all green 4bo tank ...

    Magal
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    Re: T-34 1942 production version

    Post  Magal on Wed Jun 11, 2014 8:30 am

    Aw Ivan,
    strange that you should mention the turret because that is what led me to this specimen. Earlier on, I realised that the kit's turret had a pronounced dip at the joint seam below the lateral vision slot and since most plans show a straight profile there I began looking for at least one shot that corroborated Tamiya's option.
    This here is what I'm building on....seems to tick all the boxes [still have to add the angle iron strips to which the intake hood hinges are fixed]. This does not show tracks and wheels so  I'm thinking of putting in a mix of stamped and cast wheels for the sake of breaking symmetry. As regards the tracks, I have found photos of tanks using 500 and 550mm links mounted together, alternately on the same chain but I'm not replicating this because that would entail buying an extra set. Instead I'm fitting STZ 550 M1942 [late] links from Masterclub
    Again, I iterate that I'm a novice on this subject but most ref sources seem to concord that factory fitted hand rails are one of the defining factors in identifying factory 112 produced units. Now hand rails would surely have been field fitted as well but knowing what it involves to weld mild steel to cast  alloy steel, I believe there were much fewer such attachments to cast turrets.




    iCocker
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    Re: T-34 1942 production version

    Post  iCocker on Wed Jun 11, 2014 9:48 am

    Unfortuently Tamiya is not exactly this version [you found a not so common type], not sure but I think this version had the engine hatch larger and the differnt amount of bolds then the standard later pattern ... let me check my references first and see what we can sort out ... as I said again personally I would have trashed that hull and opted for at least a Zvezda hull, it is much better in dimention and type, but we can see what can be sorted out with this one ... I know Tamiya give the front barricade extra armour, not sure about the add on armour on the front, I think that was for earlier patterns ...

    As for wheels they did not do them huphazardly just for breaking asymetry ... originally wheels were or all metal [STZ] in various type or all tyred again there are slid, webbed and wholed, you find different type with different bolds, patterns etc according to factory and type.

    Later crew found that changing the front and the back with tyred ones for the all metal gained a more pleasurable drive ... as for the tracks, one has to check fotos, it is not the dimension of that matters as there were wide and standard depending the terrain and climate to use it for. What matters is the pattern on them ... the maquette ones are good as those are STZ pattern still in use at the time do not use teh others as those are meant for their 85 models ... but as I said you never know with ruskies, if a veteran tank survived and trailed on into the next year it would have updates according to logistics at hand ...have seen Ts even with German Panther wheels ...

    Are you using the Kagero books? Good base but have some shortcuts ... the simplest tank in design of WW2 ended to be the most complex to designate!

    Magal
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    Re: T-34 1942 production version

    Post  Magal on Wed Jun 11, 2014 12:17 pm

    Yes Ivan, I was thinking of following that practice of putting tyred wheels on arms 1 and 5 and three cast wheels on the three central arms. Not sure if stamped wheels were used in conjunction with cast ones though. As regards the bolts, The Tamiya kit has the missing second bolt on the transmission plate as also on the shot I posted.
    As reference I'm using Various publishers - osprey, kagero, wydawnictwo,  sq sig, etc.
    As regards the tracks, have you ever seen the Masterclub ones? - I was already positively impressed by their quality when I used their tracks on the Stuh 42 but the ones for the T-34 are superb. Only when I took a macro shot did I realise the amount of detail they present....down to the cast serial number which is not visible with the naked eye!

    iCocker
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    Re: T-34 1942 production version

    Post  iCocker on Wed Jun 11, 2014 9:48 pm

    [i]I agree masterclub makes the best detailed tracks ...

    As for this project, the best referenceI would suggest to keep a 1941 turret with a late production 42 hull would be for a factory 112 version, most items you already there, what needs to be updated are different handrails on the side, engine deck and turret, wheels were the all solid early type rubber rimmed. Normally these had 2 additional fuel cells on the back, box type.

    The one you posted looks to be a museum piece and have my doubt if the turret was placed postwar to create a display? ... Never came across war fotos with late factory 183 hulls with 41 turrets, but one can never tell ... We are still finding new evidences, so till that foto arise I go for solid ground ... what is sure factory 112 continued into early 1943 supplying the suggested model type ... Kursk was in the pipeline Smile

    Another suggestion the back engine grill cover, the pattern was usually diamond shaped [slanted squares to be exact as per model] not straight rectangles, Aber have such patterns.
    [/

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    Re: T-34 1942 production version

    Post  Magal on Fri Jun 13, 2014 6:36 pm

    Can't do a 112 without removing the three rear plate hinges and replace them with fabricated larger twin hinges. Also the steering/transmission drive housing would have to be rounded off as the one on the kit represents the more rakish type typical of the 183. In one of S.Zaloga's books, he explains that after the loss of the Kharvkov cold rolling presses, when the 183 production plant was moved to Nizhni Tagil, a new cast turret with a slightly different shape was produced at Uralvagon.
    Anyway, I got kind of dizzy in this cauldron of types and details and marks etc...etc and decided to press on as is, according to the plans and photo posted herein.
    Model was base coated and preshaded then sprayed with the base colour and highlights.






    NOW THE FUN BEGINS bounce

    bcauchi
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    Re: T-34 1942 production version

    Post  bcauchi on Sat Jun 14, 2014 2:49 pm

    Nice paintwork.

    Magal
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    Re: T-34 1942 production version

    Post  Magal on Sat Jun 14, 2014 4:23 pm

    bcauchi wrote:Nice paintwork.
    Thanks Brian. This time I went by rule of thumb. Instead of mixing as per the usual recipies, I concocted a colour mix by adding drops of different colours until I got the desired shade. I then added some buff to the mix in order to spray on tonal differences. Today I applied four filter layers to help merge the tones and hoping that tomorrow I'll spray on the satin varnish and then progress to the weathering.


    Last edited by Magal on Sat Jun 14, 2014 6:05 pm; edited 1 time in total

    skyhigh
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    Re: T-34 1942 production version

    Post  skyhigh on Sat Jun 14, 2014 5:02 pm

    taking shape ......Mark........ cheers 

    Magal
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    Re: T-34 1942 production version

    Post  Magal on Thu Jun 19, 2014 2:04 pm

    Work has progressed in spite of the world cup Wink  Following the four filter layers, I sealed the model with a coat of gloss varnish. I then applied pin washes where appropriate and continued manipulating the base colour with various oil paint spots that were then stippled onto the surface so as to apply a kind of localised filters. When all was nice and dry I again applied a sealing coat - this time a matt varnish that also acts as a base for streaking,  patching, chipping and some further stippling with oils and enamels. This time I opted to avoid a third sealing coat so as to leave all colours more vibrant and merges more subtle.
    Work now starting on the drive train.
    Use of flash has made the transitions between colours appear rather harsh; the weathering effects are much more subtle than they appear here



    bcauchi
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    Re: T-34 1942 production version

    Post  bcauchi on Thu Jun 19, 2014 2:24 pm

    Wow, i'm no AFV man but it looks awesome, really nice work.

    skyhigh
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    Re: T-34 1942 production version

    Post  skyhigh on Thu Jun 19, 2014 5:19 pm

    You have to see it.. Brian the paint work is Awesome........... cheers 

    J.Fenech
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    Re: T-34 1942 production version

    Post  J.Fenech on Thu Jun 19, 2014 6:39 pm

    skyhigh wrote:You have to see it.. Brian the paint work  is Awesome........... cheers 

    I agree 101%. Excellent job!

    in nannu pec
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    Re: T-34 1942 production version

    Post  in nannu pec on Fri Jun 20, 2014 7:06 am

    J.Fenech wrote:
    skyhigh wrote:You have to see it.. Brian the paint work  is Awesome........... cheers 

    I agree 101%.  Excellent job!


    make that X2
    In Nannu

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