Airfix ME 109 1/72 - Tatzelwurm - FINISHED!

    Share

    skyhigh
    Best in Show
    Best in Show

    Posts : 4654
    Join date : 2009-07-30
    Age : 55
    Location : Qormi, Malta

    Re: Airfix ME 109 1/72 - Tatzelwurm - FINISHED!

    Post  skyhigh on Tue Jul 29, 2014 4:17 pm

    Shocked Shocked Shocked  Can I see chipping............. Shocked  Shocked  Shocked 





    skyhigh
    Best in Show
    Best in Show

    Posts : 4654
    Join date : 2009-07-30
    Age : 55
    Location : Qormi, Malta

    Re: Airfix ME 109 1/72 - Tatzelwurm - FINISHED!

    Post  skyhigh on Tue Jul 29, 2014 4:19 pm

    where is the chipping ................... Shocked Shocked 


    skyhigh
    Best in Show
    Best in Show

    Posts : 4654
    Join date : 2009-07-30
    Age : 55
    Location : Qormi, Malta

    Re: Airfix ME 109 1/72 - Tatzelwurm - FINISHED!

    Post  skyhigh on Tue Jul 29, 2014 4:23 pm

    Prop Blades ......... Shocked Shocked 


    Ray
    Best in Show
    Best in Show

    Posts : 6102
    Join date : 2009-07-21
    Age : 53
    Location : Zurrieq MALTA

    Re: Airfix ME 109 1/72 - Tatzelwurm - FINISHED!

    Post  Ray on Tue Jul 29, 2014 5:30 pm

    KELLIMHOM MARCO!!!!!!!

    JIEN VERU NAQBAD MIEGHEK GHAL KULL HAGA TA' XEJN.....IMMA GHANDEK RAGUN BIEX TBIEGH U FEJN JIDHLU L-AJRUPLANI, L-EBDA U NIRREPETI L-EBDA HADD MA JISTA JMERIK U DAK LI JGHODD GHAL HAGA MHUX BILFORS JGHODD GHAL OHRA!!!!!!!

    BRAVISSIMU MARCO!!!!!!!

    WE ALL KNOW THAT ASSUMING IS MORE LIKE MAKING AN ASS OF ONESELF IN MOST OCCASIONS, ESPECIALLY IF ONE IS MAKING SUCH A WELL DOCUMENTED ACE'S EMIL AS THIS ONE & ASSUME THIS OR THAT WITHOUT LOOKING AT THE DOCUMENTS FIRST!!!!!!!

    Sorry ALL, just my 2c worth & I will speak no more of this  cheers 



    iCocker
    Best in Show
    Best in Show

    Posts : 3172
    Join date : 2009-07-21
    Age : 42
    Location : Marsascala, Malta

    Re: Airfix ME 109 1/72 - Tatzelwurm - FINISHED!

    Post  iCocker on Tue Jul 29, 2014 9:36 pm

    Marco i said the chipping is maybe overboard, but what I suggested you plane guys think the birds were sportscar all polished and glitter, look again at the foto, the mg area is a mess, the yellow is burnt and smugged with black, the mechanic is on the wing, beneath his feet one can notice fuel stains, scratches and dust, I see chipping of aluminium in the cockpit frame obviously because they use it , paint work looks damn matt (that is an other aging weathering factor, to much time in the open), the foto is taken on a sunny day and not a sheen on the body ... I do not think when he was ready he got his set of buffers and G3 to polish the mess he made ... As long as it flies in war is good ... So next time study better the fotos sur fotographer ... You idolise to much the birds and their owners that you mix it up with a Ferrari in a showroom ...  tongue

    If you go to the airport and check an airliner which is painted gloss and cared for well, still you see traces of weathering ... Oil stains, dust, streaks, even minor chipping especially the luggage hold area ... You name it it's there ....

    Obviously everything has to be contained to it's kind ... One cannot do the same treatment as a tank or a ship, but moderate, apart it depends what theatre and scene it represents ... Again as I said this model is too scratched especially in areas it should not, especially considering it is 1/72 ...

    bcauchi
    Best in Show
    Best in Show

    Posts : 4047
    Join date : 2009-07-30
    Age : 55
    Location : St. Julian's

    Re: Airfix ME 109 1/72 - Tatzelwurm - FINISHED!

    Post  bcauchi on Wed Jul 30, 2014 5:43 am

    Marco in the photos u posted there is chipping all over the place if you look carefully enough to notice it. i agree about the prop blades but the aircraft is all scuffed. The first photo is the best to show this. There is bare metal showing on the wing root where it is stepped on, the canopy and other areas especially panels accessed frequently. also chipping does not necessarily expose aluminium. notice the yellow cowl which would have been painted over the factory colours. it is all chipped especially the edges and you can see the original camo colour. These planes were workhorses not a car you take out of the garage on a nice Sunday morning. Although a bit too much, i still love Noels plane. The tankman instinct must have taken oved at some point!

    iCocker
    Best in Show
    Best in Show

    Posts : 3172
    Join date : 2009-07-21
    Age : 42
    Location : Marsascala, Malta

    Re: Airfix ME 109 1/72 - Tatzelwurm - FINISHED!

    Post  iCocker on Wed Jul 30, 2014 8:39 am

    Noel, I recommend for a next project you should do a Zero, Japanese aircraft have a tendency to look scruffy due to a poor paint job they were given, so you would be free to do lots of chipping everywhere ... would be quite a nice project and the new Zero by Airfix has been given a good thumbs up!

    Ivan

    skyhigh
    Best in Show
    Best in Show

    Posts : 4654
    Join date : 2009-07-30
    Age : 55
    Location : Qormi, Malta

    Re: Airfix ME 109 1/72 - Tatzelwurm - FINISHED!

    Post  skyhigh on Wed Jul 30, 2014 5:56 pm

    Ivan ghed it gib hafna zkuzi .. dawn mhux tank........ Evil or Very Mad  Twisted Evil  f gih kemm hemm ... jien ma nafx , ima ghed tipretendu li ghed taraw hafna brix....... li fil fatt , trid lenti biex tarah..

    l argument kien mhux ghax fih il brix imam ghax is segerghat ....... li f dak li scale jigi jider silver l'ajruplan ...... ghed tghamlu fass gbir fuq il weathering.............. cheers 

    iCocker
    Best in Show
    Best in Show

    Posts : 3172
    Join date : 2009-07-21
    Age : 42
    Location : Marsascala, Malta

    Re: Airfix ME 109 1/72 - Tatzelwurm - FINISHED!

    Post  iCocker on Wed Jul 30, 2014 6:26 pm

    Jien qed narhom minghajr lenti ... Fuq il-brix ftehmna kollha nahseb li fuq 1/72 me kienu ahjar kontrollati f'certu bnadi, ghalhekk isugerejt zero ... Imma li fir-ritratt originali mhux qed tara weathering nahseb zbaljat bi kbir ... Nitkellmu aktar il-quddiem fuq din ... Issa tifhem kif nghamilhekk build up fuq ir-ritratt ... Trid tinota siehbi mhux tiprova taqbad art tal-RLM biss ... Lol narakhom ftit iehor ... pig 

    Noel Petroni
    Gold
    Gold

    Posts : 1226
    Join date : 2009-07-21
    Age : 54
    Location : Balzan - Malta

    Re: Airfix ME 109 1/72 - Tatzelwurm - FINISHED!

    Post  Noel Petroni on Wed Jul 30, 2014 8:53 pm

    My turn now.......

    It could be that model planes have been painted with very little weathering for decades that it set the standard of what a plane should look like.

    Now, even today unless you have a very good primer, paint will not adhere well to aluminum....it's a fact.
    Imagine 70 years ago with low quality paint what results could have been achieved.  Walking with boots on the wing, maybe a small stone got lodged in the boot and chips the paint, ammo panel being screwed and unscrewed many times a day. Plane taken in for repairs and more abuse with tools left on the wing and handling...etc...... plane touches down on ground and gravel is whipped by the prop onto fuselage......

    So, upon seeing my plane some of you went "Nooooooooo jahasra! Dak kienu jipolixxjawh b'turtle wax u jirtokjaw kull girfa'...' jekk majkunxx pinna maj tirx'

    I'm not saying that my ME109 has somewhat vivid looking chips... I would tend to agree with Ivan to tone down slightly..... but maybe I'm setting a new style! Very Happy

    J.Fenech
    Best in Show
    Best in Show

    Posts : 2103
    Join date : 2009-08-01
    Age : 42
    Location : MALTA - South

    Re: Airfix ME 109 1/72 - Tatzelwurm - FINISHED!

    Post  J.Fenech on Wed Jul 30, 2014 10:40 pm

    Noel Petroni wrote:My turn now.......

    It could be that model planes have been painted with very little weathering for decades that it set the standard of what a plane should look like.

    Now, even today unless you have a very good primer, paint will not adhere well to aluminum....it's a fact.
    Imagine 70 years ago with low quality paint what results could have been achieved.  Walking with boots on the wing, maybe a small stone got lodged in the boot and chips the paint, ammo panel being screwed and unscrewed many times a day. Plane taken in for repairs and more abuse with tools left on the wing and handling...etc...... plane touches down on ground and gravel is whipped by the prop onto fuselage......

    So, upon seeing my plane some of you went "Nooooooooo jahasra! Dak kienu jipolixxjawh b'turtle wax u jirtokjaw kull girfa'...' jekk majkunxx pinna maj tirx'

    I'm not saying that my ME109 has somewhat vivid looking chips... I would tend to agree with Ivan to tone down slightly..... but maybe I'm setting a new style! Very Happy



    Forget about setting new styles,  first you have to know the subject and not what if the aircrew might have done or not and yes there were occasions where aircraft were polished.  I agree that you have to do chipping but this has to be selective and being at the right place.

    1. chipping around gun access panel and pilot/groundcrew access route is to be expected but this has to be done in a controlled manner. It is easily to go overboard with this.  Remember that aircraft have areas where one cannot step and be careful to avoid unnecessary damage.  There is a reason for stencilling like No Step, No Push, walk inboard etc..

    2. chipping on the fuselage spine - who was the idiot running along the spine and to fix what or was he doing some kind of prank? Smile

    3. you chipped the flaps and control surfaces - these were made of fabric not metal!

    4. propeller would have looked fine had it been flying around from coral strew pacific runways or north African desert, not west europe but props do get chipped Marco -   though to be fair the photo shows an Me 109 in north africa and not flying from some french field  


    5. with that amount of chipping, you should have considered to fade the paint as well as this gets weathered too, probably more important than chipping.

    6. topside the model looks pretty much beaten but undersides are pretty much pristine, not to mention that wheel wells are in the wrong color. If you wan to include heavy weathering on an aircraft it has to be 360 degrees in x and y axis not topside only. Wheels and legs seem to have mud or sort but nothing in the wheel bay??

    7. other than these points, you did a great job but you cannot weather and beat up an airplane the same way you do on an AFV but have to modify AFV techniques to suit aircraft, know the subject and weather according to material, theatre and preferably pics of the original.

    Noel Petroni
    Gold
    Gold

    Posts : 1226
    Join date : 2009-07-21
    Age : 54
    Location : Balzan - Malta

    Re: Airfix ME 109 1/72 - Tatzelwurm - FINISHED!

    Post  Noel Petroni on Sun Aug 03, 2014 2:10 pm

    J.Fenech wrote:
    Noel Petroni wrote:My turn now.......

    It could be that model planes have been painted with very little weathering for decades that it set the standard of what a plane should look like.

    Now, even today unless you have a very good primer, paint will not adhere well to aluminum....it's a fact.
    Imagine 70 years ago with low quality paint what results could have been achieved.  Walking with boots on the wing, maybe a small stone got lodged in the boot and chips the paint, ammo panel being screwed and unscrewed many times a day. Plane taken in for repairs and more abuse with tools left on the wing and handling...etc...... plane touches down on ground and gravel is whipped by the prop onto fuselage......

    So, upon seeing my plane some of you went "Nooooooooo jahasra! Dak kienu jipolixxjawh b'turtle wax u jirtokjaw kull girfa'...' jekk majkunxx pinna maj tirx'

    I'm not saying that my ME109 has somewhat vivid looking chips... I would tend to agree with Ivan to tone down slightly..... but maybe I'm setting a new style! Very Happy



    Forget about setting new styles,  first you have to know the subject and not what if the aircrew might have done or not and yes there were occasions where aircraft were polished.  I agree that you have to do chipping but this has to be selective and being at the right place.

    1. chipping around gun access panel and pilot/groundcrew access route is to be expected but this has to be done in a controlled manner. It is easily to go overboard with this.  Remember that aircraft have areas where one cannot step and be careful to avoid unnecessary damage.  There is a reason for stencilling like No Step, No Push, walk inboard etc..

    2. chipping on the fuselage spine - who was the idiot running along the spine and to fix what or was he doing some kind of prank? Smile

    3. you chipped the flaps and control surfaces - these were made of fabric not metal!

    4. propeller would have looked fine had it been flying around from coral strew pacific runways or north African desert, not west europe but props do get chipped Marco -   though to be fair the photo shows an Me 109 in north africa and not flying from some french field  


    5. with that amount of chipping, you should have considered to fade the paint as well as this gets weathered too, probably more important than chipping.

    6. topside the model looks pretty much beaten but undersides are pretty much pristine, not to mention that wheel wells are in the wrong color. If you wan to include heavy weathering on an aircraft it has to be 360 degrees in x and y axis not topside only. Wheels and legs seem to have mud or sort but nothing in the wheel bay??

    7. other than these points, you did a great job but you cannot weather and beat up an airplane the same way you do on an AFV but have to modify AFV techniques to suit aircraft, know the subject and weather according to material, theatre and preferably pics of the original.

    Don't bet on it Joe... I might set a new style!
    1. Access panels... I don't think maintenance are going to bother weather to scratch or not. Do you know or are there any records as to when a plane got a fresh coat of paint. Every week, every month....never!
    2. Fuselage chipping is artistic license.
    3. Fabric!!! Mela dan WWI yew!
    4. The prop spins at a very high rev thus making friction against air. The paint at that time was not high quality and painting on aluminum is very tricky because unless you have a special primer (available only today) the paint will not adhere. So paint chipping on props is a must! Pictures you see are most probably newly painted props.
    5. If you see the model live... there are more worn paint than chipping.
    6. Underside..... ma kellix aptit namlu
    7. Thanks

    Ray
    Best in Show
    Best in Show

    Posts : 6102
    Join date : 2009-07-21
    Age : 53
    Location : Zurrieq MALTA

    Re: Airfix ME 109 1/72 - Tatzelwurm - FINISHED!

    Post  Ray on Sun Aug 03, 2014 7:08 pm

    I LOVE your "new style" Noel  lol! lol! lol! 

    J.Fenech
    Best in Show
    Best in Show

    Posts : 2103
    Join date : 2009-08-01
    Age : 42
    Location : MALTA - South

    Re: Airfix ME 109 1/72 - Tatzelwurm - FINISHED!

    Post  J.Fenech on Sun Aug 03, 2014 10:09 pm

    Noel it is your model and you do whatever you want with it, weather it to your liking and style but artistic licence is not an unlimited excuse for do as you please, there are still boundaries when doing a historical subject otherwise you would be entering the scifi and fantasy realm Suspect .  Added to that you are making too many assumptions my friend!! especially on a subject you are not yet that familiar with!  As I said earlier tanks are not aircraft or vice versa, but certain techniques can accommodate both.

    Ground crew weren't a bunch of idiots not knowing what to do or were to go, they were trained skilled technicians, mechanics and armourers and they did miracles at times to keep aircraft serviceable.  Try walking on an aileron without damaging it or dangling from a pitot tube! Smile

    Yes the control surfaces on this model were covered with fabric as were a lot of other aircraft of the same period - does the Hurricane ring any bells?? That is why you should know your subject and for the record there were still wooden props being used as well on some aircraft.

    Whilst I agree with you that paint is lost due to handling, friction and debris, on what are you basing your statement that paint quality was not that good at the time?   http://www.asisbiz.com/Battles/camouflage/images/Bf-109E-White-2-of-unknown-unit-Gratz-Apr-1941.jpg
    Does not look like a new aircraft to me and is not chipped all over, notice the flaps and control surfaces, chipping around the wingroot and flaps but not the flaps. Also notice the prop, maybe it is new  Twisted Evil 

    Last one, a picture of the Spitfire, note that chipping is again not all over but in selective areas only according to use.

    ]http://www.asisbiz.com/il2/Spitfire/Spitfire/images/Great-colour-photo-of-unknown-Spitfire-coded-LT-Britain-01.jpg[/i]

    One thing of interest from these 2 pictures is that the paint finish ain't dead matt.

    Just a suggestion, if you are into heavy paint chipping I suggest you choose a Japanese subject, it has got all what you need and want, paint issues, sun, sea, heat and all the weathering erosion you can think off. I am sure you will love it!! Smile

    Noel Petroni
    Gold
    Gold

    Posts : 1226
    Join date : 2009-07-21
    Age : 54
    Location : Balzan - Malta

    Re: Airfix ME 109 1/72 - Tatzelwurm - FINISHED!

    Post  Noel Petroni on Sun Aug 03, 2014 11:25 pm

    Ray wrote:I LOVE your "new style" Noel  lol! lol! lol! 

    Thanks Ray!!

    Listen..... I'm doing an article for a airplane magazine regarding my new style that was appreciated by the editor and thought it was a fresh approach than the usual showroom condition of most models. I'll send you a copy with the hope that you will start building planes!

    Noel Petroni
    Gold
    Gold

    Posts : 1226
    Join date : 2009-07-21
    Age : 54
    Location : Balzan - Malta

    Re: Airfix ME 109 1/72 - Tatzelwurm - FINISHED!

    Post  Noel Petroni on Sun Aug 03, 2014 11:31 pm

    Joe...... sorry but sometimes I'm in a funny mood......... I agree with lots of what you said..... my fabric comment being WWI was a joke  Very Happy ... I know that fabric was used on WWII planes but I just don't know which panels. I had even asked where fabric was used on the Gloster so as not to expose aluminum there.

    However, I love chipping and I'll probably keep doing it even on the rubber wheels!

    Paint........ well as regards tanks, paint used to arrive in paste form and the crew used to dilute it with fuel petrol or diesel. I suppose it used to arrive for the Luftwaffe in the same form.

    iCocker
    Best in Show
    Best in Show

    Posts : 3172
    Join date : 2009-07-21
    Age : 42
    Location : Marsascala, Malta

    Re: Airfix ME 109 1/72 - Tatzelwurm - FINISHED!

    Post  iCocker on Mon Aug 04, 2014 7:11 am

    Please no no ... Do not start the paint issues again ... This going to be an endless discussion with no result!

    Ray
    Best in Show
    Best in Show

    Posts : 6102
    Join date : 2009-07-21
    Age : 53
    Location : Zurrieq MALTA

    Re: Airfix ME 109 1/72 - Tatzelwurm - FINISHED!

    Post  Ray on Mon Aug 04, 2014 2:22 pm

    lol! lol! lol! lol! lol! lol! lol! 

    Noel Petroni
    Gold
    Gold

    Posts : 1226
    Join date : 2009-07-21
    Age : 54
    Location : Balzan - Malta

    Re: Airfix ME 109 1/72 - Tatzelwurm - FINISHED!

    Post  Noel Petroni on Mon Aug 04, 2014 7:14 pm

    iCocker wrote:Please no no ... Do not start the paint issues again ... This going to be an endless discussion with no result!

     lol! 

    J.Fenech
    Best in Show
    Best in Show

    Posts : 2103
    Join date : 2009-08-01
    Age : 42
    Location : MALTA - South

    Re: Airfix ME 109 1/72 - Tatzelwurm - FINISHED!

    Post  J.Fenech on Mon Aug 04, 2014 8:19 pm

    I rest my case, its useless there is no cure!!  lol! 

    skyhigh
    Best in Show
    Best in Show

    Posts : 4654
    Join date : 2009-07-30
    Age : 55
    Location : Qormi, Malta

    Re: Airfix ME 109 1/72 - Tatzelwurm - FINISHED!

    Post  skyhigh on Mon Aug 04, 2014 9:07 pm

    J.Fenech wrote:I rest my case, its useless there is no cure!!  lol! 



    Thank You God..!!!!!!! Thank You God ........Thank you God...

    At least There is some one who see's things the way I see them .........


    vive le aeroplane..............

      Current date/time is Sun Sep 25, 2016 10:48 pm