Werner Voss in 1:48scale

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    RayCaruana
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    Re: Werner Voss in 1:48scale

    Post  RayCaruana on Mon May 10, 2010 1:25 pm

    Joseph wrote:Ray C. re seratizzi, at a first glance they do look a bit overscale, but you can scale these.

    If the ones you have used are 5mm wide i.e. 5mm x 48 (your scale) = 240mm = 24cm = 9.5"

    I think what you can do re position of Voss, you may place the set-up at a diogonal position to the base thus whilst Voss would still be looking at the engine his face would still be facing outwards.

    Just my 3c worth.

    Thanks brian. Will give it a try and see the result. Ray in his post hit exactly what I had in mind, but still worth trying at this point. Re: seratizzi, 24cm square are a bit too thick I think, even to support an engine. Will try with a smaller size and see how they would look.

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    Re: Werner Voss in 1:48scale

    Post  slingshot392 on Mon May 10, 2010 7:07 pm

    This looks like a really great project, really catching a slice in time. He was one of my favorite pilots from that war.

    Not sure what you are using for the tent? I saw someone makes some very realistic looking canvas using some tissue and some thinned out white glue and then painted. I haven't tried it, but maybe the paint could even be added to the white glue. after it was coated, it was draped into the desired shape and can be tweaked as it dries.

    Are you going to paint that prop or are you going to try carving one out of wood? I was never very good at carving props, but I have seen some guys carve some beautiful props out of a piece of wood and some wood laminate different shades of wood with a beautiful effect.

    Noel Petroni
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    Re: Werner Voss in 1:48scale

    Post  Noel Petroni on Mon May 10, 2010 10:16 pm

    I did not read all the posts.

    The wooden beams do look slightly large from where I'm sitting.

    The thing that I wish to comment on is the hanger wall. Was it canvas? If so I feel that they look a bit think as a material. I mean it would be nice to see the sagging and folds of the material.

    Maybe I wrong.


    Regards
    Noel

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    Re: Werner Voss in 1:48scale

    Post  RayCaruana on Mon May 10, 2010 10:46 pm

    slingshot392 wrote:This looks like a really great project, really catching a slice in time. He was one of my favorite pilots from that war.

    Not sure what you are using for the tent? I saw someone makes some very realistic looking canvas using some tissue and some thinned out white glue and then painted. I haven't tried it, but maybe the paint could even be added to the white glue. after it was coated, it was draped into the desired shape and can be tweaked as it dries.

    Are you going to paint that prop or are you going to try carving one out of wood? I was never very good at carving props, but I have seen some guys carve some beautiful props out of a piece of wood and some wood laminate different shades of wood with a beautiful effect.

    The tent is made of White milliput. I was very tempted to try the method you mentioned but wanted something more durable, though I might be very wrong! Maybe I will try a test piece.

    Regarding the prop, I will refine the plastic one in the photo and paint it in wood grain.

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    Re: Werner Voss in 1:48scale

    Post  RayCaruana on Mon May 10, 2010 10:50 pm

    Noel Petroni wrote:I did not read all the posts.

    The wooden beams do look slightly large from where I'm sitting.

    The thing that I wish to comment on is the hanger wall. Was it canvas? If so I feel that they look a bit think as a material. I mean it would be nice to see the sagging and folds of the material.

    Maybe I wrong.


    Regards
    Noel

    I think I'm gonna change the beams for 3mm squared ones.

    Yes the tent was made of canvas. They are not ready yet. I need to thin them, cement them, add seams etc. I tried to make some sagging and folds, but turned into a nightmare Shocked I may try slingshot's suggestion too.

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    Re: Werner Voss in 1:48scale

    Post  RayCaruana on Tue May 11, 2010 11:49 pm

    I changed the whole set up...from Tent to workshop. What do you think? Is it better now?




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    Re: Werner Voss in 1:48scale

    Post  bcauchi on Wed May 12, 2010 9:18 am

    No Ray, just my opinion, but i think that the previous setup was more appropriate for a field operation during the first world war. Things are a bit too neat for my liking in this way, the tent, rough ground and heavy blocks of wood looked better and more authentic in my opinion, it would make a more attractive setup.

    don;t give up on the tent, you can take up Brad's idea with tissue and the seams in the fabric are not difficult to make even with thin strips of masking tape. Definitely go for the tent!!

    Ray
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    Re: Werner Voss in 1:48scale

    Post  Ray on Wed May 12, 2010 1:22 pm

    bcauchi wrote:No Ray, just my opinion, but i think that the previous setup was more appropriate for a field operation during the first world war. Things are a bit too neat for my liking in this way, the tent, rough ground and heavy blocks of wood looked better and more authentic in my opinion, it would make a more attractive setup.

    don;t give up on the tent, you can take up Brad's idea with tissue and the seams in the fabric are not difficult to make even with thin strips of masking tape. Definitely go for the tent!!

    I think Brian hit this on the nail again......very very valid point re "make shift tent" on the operating field during WWI.

    And re canvas or whatever material for the tent. Do you really have to make "folds" per se? I mean, there would only be some natural sagging of the material, and in that scale you can just paint on the enforced seams. Another thing......have you thought of working with lead sheat instead of rolled MS? Or pewter sheet? If you don't have pewter (I bought a sheet from Euro, can't remember if you did honestly) just give me a rough size and I'll bring you some, this eve no problem at all.

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    Re: Werner Voss in 1:48scale

    Post  iCocker on Wed May 12, 2010 4:45 pm

    Not to be a devil's advocate but for me the corner is too strict right angle in my eyes, being canvas or wood, it is obscuring the overall idea and the impact on the figure is somehow lost, especially with the flat engine on the floor, I rather prefer the first original implement of a pyramid structure holding the engine, I think it balances more ... IMO

    Iv

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    Re: Werner Voss in 1:48scale

    Post  RayCaruana on Wed May 12, 2010 5:49 pm

    Thank you all for your feedback. I will sleep on them, try some options and see what happens scratch scratch cheers

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    Re: Werner Voss in 1:48scale

    Post  William on Wed May 12, 2010 8:48 pm

    Coming along great but I agree with the others re makeshift tent, HAPPY modelling Smile

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    Re: Werner Voss in 1:48scale

    Post  Noel Petroni on Thu May 13, 2010 5:55 am

    Flattening Milliput to a very, very thin film will produce a nice effect.

    Regards
    Noel

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    Re: Werner Voss in 1:48scale

    Post  bcauchi on Thu May 13, 2010 7:31 am

    Have you slept on it Ray? Good morning, what did you decide? This is becoming intrigueing.

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    Re: Werner Voss in 1:48scale

    Post  RayCaruana on Thu May 13, 2010 7:36 am

    Noel Petroni wrote:Flattening Milliput to a very, very thin film will produce a nice effect.

    Regards
    Noel

    I used rolled milliput white, but it isn't sanded yet.

    RayCaruana
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    Re: Werner Voss in 1:48scale

    Post  RayCaruana on Thu May 13, 2010 7:43 am

    bcauchi wrote:Have you slept on it Ray? Good morning, what did you decide? This is becoming intrigueing.

    Yes Brian we discussed it in detail yesterday at the club. We think that the tent's material at the time of WW1 was linen not canvas, therefore tissue with PVA is probably the best option. I will give it a try tonight or in the weekend.

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    Re: Werner Voss in 1:48scale

    Post  bcauchi on Thu May 13, 2010 8:37 am

    Looking forward to this, it should look great and the tissue will look a lot like fabric when you apply the pva. I have covered parts of aircraft using glue and tissue and it looks great. Besides, it will be well stiffened when dry. Great choice.

    Ray
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    Re: Werner Voss in 1:48scale

    Post  Ray on Thu May 13, 2010 8:55 am

    RayCaruana wrote:
    bcauchi wrote:Have you slept on it Ray? Good morning, what did you decide? This is becoming intrigueing.

    Yes Brian we discussed it in detail yesterday at the club. We think that the tent's material at the time of WW1 was linen not canvas, therefore tissue with PVA is probably the best option. I will give it a try tonight or in the weekend.

    Qis li ma jkunx bil-fjuri jew frott ghax jibqa jidher lol!

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    Re: Werner Voss in 1:48scale

    Post  RayCaruana on Thu May 13, 2010 9:19 am

    [quote="RayCaruana We think that the tent's material at the time of WW1 was linen not canvas, therefore tissue with PVA is probably the best option. I will give it a try tonight or in the weekend.[/quote]

    This site I found is full of photos with Canvas tents and canvas Ambulance canopies, etc.(A great source of WW1 photos!). I'm a bit confused now scratch But will try the tissue anyway.

    http://www.firstworldwar.com/photos/medical.htm

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    Re: Werner Voss in 1:48scale

    Post  Joseph on Thu May 13, 2010 10:05 am

    Great site, what a hive of information.

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    Re: Werner Voss in 1:48scale

    Post  alexbb on Thu May 13, 2010 12:34 pm

    Ray wrote:
    RayCaruana wrote:
    bcauchi wrote:Have you slept on it Ray? Good morning, what did you decide? This is becoming intrigueing.

    Yes Brian we discussed it in detail yesterday at the club. We think that the tent's material at the time of WW1 was linen not canvas, therefore tissue with PVA is probably the best option. I will give it a try tonight or in the weekend.

    Qis li ma jkunx bil-fjuri jew frott ghax jibqa jidher lol!


    ray has a point here i would suggest you use the industrial type tissue, this is a plain and quite coarse tissue with the added bonus of being quite tear resistant and the texture is spot on.

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    Re: Werner Voss in 1:48scale

    Post  RayCaruana on Thu May 13, 2010 1:30 pm

    Thanks Alex!...mela to the workshop bounce

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    Re: Werner Voss in 1:48scale

    Post  Guest on Fri May 14, 2010 9:52 am

    Hi Guys

    this is looking very promising, When Voss looked at replacing the engine in the Fokker, this was when he was part of JG1, they had most of their workshops in canvas/linen hangers, there is even an image of Manfred and Lothar standing next to Manfreds F1 102/17, which Wolff was killed in Action flying, while Richofen was on leave. Voss’ was F1 103/17. F1 being the Fokker F1 prototype of the DR1, which Richthofen first flew March 1918, due to wing problems again like the Albatros DIII and DV.

    What I am trying to say is the workshop area they show in the film is a little hollywood, but closer than people may think, but much larger and held up to 3 aircraft, so the canvas/linen sided version is closer to reality, perhaps in a box dio rather than a figure base would give the shadow effect needed for the interior of the canvas hanger.

    Please shoot me down if I am wrong..........

    Dave

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    Re: Werner Voss in 1:48scale

    Post  RayCaruana on Fri May 14, 2010 10:06 am

    Thanks for the information and comments Dave. I really appreciated your feedback on this one. I trashed the Wooden shed type workshop and I'm now trying with tissue and PVA dipped in brewed tea for the canvas/linen tent. Yesterday I did some tests and quite liked the result but the tissue was kind of textured, so I will get some smooth tissue and try again, hopefully tonight.

    I agree re. boxed diorama, very tempting! Maybe with some low backlighting coming from behind the canvas scratch

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    Re: Werner Voss in 1:48scale

    Post  Guest on Fri May 14, 2010 10:16 am

    Hi Ray

    Before you thank me on this, I have found contrary to my previous statement, that there is photographic evidence that they used wooden hangers. These images are all Werner Voss’s F1 103/17, be fore his death as to when the engine change happened as far as these images are concerned, the only one being the second image giving a date of when the aircraft was flown with the Le Rhone engine

    Dave





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    Re: Werner Voss in 1:48scale

    Post  RayCaruana on Fri May 14, 2010 10:26 am

    DaveM wrote:Hi Ray

    Before you thank me on this, I have found contrary to my previous statement, that there is photographic evidence that they used wooden hangers. These images are all Werner Voss’s F1 103/17, be fore his death as to when the engine change happened as far as these images are concerned, the only one being the second image giving a date of when the aircraft was flown with the Le Rhone engine

    Dave





    Thanks to this, now I know that if the tissue tent doesn't materialise, I can opt for the wooden workshop without hesitation. Unfortunetly I have to wait till I go home to see the photos, 'cause photobucket is filtered at my office Crying or Very sad

    Cheers Dave

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