Tank Man, Tiananmen,1989 China

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    iCocker
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    Tank Man, Tiananmen,1989 China

    Post  iCocker on Tue Sep 24, 2013 7:59 pm

    Some images of the combined project between Matthew and me ... special thanks also to Alex BB and Andy Taylor for their assistence on this nightmarish tank conversion ...

    More detail especially about the tank Chinese Type 59C  conversion on the AFV section ...










    bcauchi
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    Re: Tank Man, Tiananmen,1989 China

    Post  bcauchi on Wed Sep 25, 2013 7:48 am

    Exquisitely done. prosit to both of you!

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    Re: Tank Man, Tiananmen,1989 China

    Post  skyhigh on Wed Sep 25, 2013 4:27 pm

    bcauchi wrote:Exquisitely done. prosit to both of you!

    X2 pls...very welldone..cheers 

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    Re: Tank Man, Tiananmen,1989 China

    Post  el manolo on Wed Sep 25, 2013 4:45 pm

    good job. I would suggest that you add two more tanks, place the figure closer to the tank (in the image the man is only 1-2m away) and a wider diorama base. It will look more real.

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    Re: Tank Man, Tiananmen,1989 China

    Post  Ray on Thu Sep 26, 2013 8:23 am

    skyhigh wrote:
    bcauchi wrote:Exquisitely done. prosit to both of you!
    X2 pls...very welldone..cheers 
    X3 if I may cheers

    Weldone to ALL 4 of YOU TanKMen cheers

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    Re: Tank Man, Tiananmen,1989 China

    Post  iCocker on Thu Sep 26, 2013 8:49 am

    el manolo wrote:good job. I would suggest that you add two more tanks, place the figure closer to the tank (in the image the man is only 1-2m away) and a wider diorama base. It will look more real.
    Would like to El Manolo but the tank took over 9 months to be converted, apart it was a nightmare to get all the correct details [ask el Dottore about it] especially as not one tank is the same neither the camo if you notice correctly the images as referance, it is also an expensive process and building in 1/35 it means you have to add at least another 40cm to make the base, then we would need to buy a private jet to transport it abroad Wink

    Regarding the figure, rest assured I studied the footage frame by frame, the footage was taken from a perspective angle and far away, to be exact it was taken from a hotel balcony almost a Km away hence the blur ... the only time tank man was near the Type59c command tank was when he climbed over it which is not the moment we planned.

    I took the distance from the amount of footsteps he made when he reached the tank and the perspective angle of the long gun, to be exact he started further away when he was still on the zebra crossing, he stood his ground and the tank came over and the tango of moving to one side and another always standing his ground, that is the moment I designed the vignette ... then he moved foward, he got near and on top of the tank, when he was on the yellow double line ... rest assured we did well our research, we spent a whole summer seeing every image avaialabe and every footage frame by frame for a million time ...

    Re the street I wanted to do something different then the usual dios, create a perspective angle similar to shot and never showing Tank man's face, so the shortest edge is the one on the front, instead the usual style ... making wider is a no go for dios, one would be lost with space and balance as it is just an empty road, thank God they made lines and zebras as it broke the monotony of a flat surface.

    Foto dios are a nightmare as one has to obey the original and not much freedom of expression, the only artistic licensce we got is the tank number as never was seen, but we took referance of the units that were on Tianamen square the day before ... as I told simple can be complicated sometimes ...

    Ivan

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    Re: Tank Man, Tiananmen,1989 China

    Post  Ray on Thu Sep 26, 2013 8:56 am

    iCocker wrote:
    el manolo wrote:good job. I would suggest that you add two more tanks, place the figure closer to the tank (in the image the man is only 1-2m away) and a wider diorama base. It will look more real.
    Would like to El Manolo but the tank took over 9 months to be converted, apart it was a nightmare to get all the correct details [ask el Dottore about it] especially as not one tank is the same neither the camo if you notice correctly the images as referance, it is also an expensive process and building in 1/35 it means you have to add at least another 40cm to make the base, then we would need to buy a private jet to transport it abroad Wink

    Regarding the figure, rest assured I studied the footage frame by frame, the footage was taken from a perspective angle and far away, to be exact it was taken from a hotel balcony almost a Km away hence the blur ... the only time tank man was near the Type59c command tank was when he climbed over it which is not the moment we planned.

    I took the distance from the amount of footsteps he made when he reached the tank and the perspective angle of the long gun, to be exact he started further away when he was still on the zebra crossing, he stood his ground and the tank came over and the tango of moving to one side and another always standing his ground, that is the moment I designed the vignette ... then he moved foward, he got near and on top of the tank, when he was on the yellow double line ... rest assured we did well our research, we spent a whole summer seeing every image avaialabe and every footage frame by frame for a million time ...

    Re the street I wanted to do something different then the usual dios, create a perspective angle similar to shot and never showing Tank man's face, so the shortest edge is the one on the front, instead the usual style ... making wider is a no go for dios, one would be lost with space and balance as it is just an empty road, thank God they made lines and zebras as it broke the monotony of a flat surface.

    Foto dios are a nightmare as one has to obey the original and not much freedom of expression, the only artistic licensce we got is the tank number as never was seen, but we took referance of the units that were on Tianamen square the day before ... as I told simple can be complicated sometimes ...

    Ivan
    Well explained Ivan cheers

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    Re: Tank Man, Tiananmen,1989 China

    Post  el manolo on Thu Sep 26, 2013 9:57 am

    i referred to this image:




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    Re: Tank Man, Tiananmen,1989 China

    Post  in nannu pec on Thu Sep 26, 2013 10:03 am

    Awesome and so original....well done Cocru !
    In nannu8) 

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    Re: Tank Man, Tiananmen,1989 China

    Post  iCocker on Thu Sep 26, 2013 5:32 pm

    el manolo wrote:i referred to this image:



    That was just before he went over the tank to discuss with the crew ... ours is before when he was still on the zebra and playing tango with the tank ... ... yet this frame which I have studied well is not so near as it seems, if you notice he is in line with the end of the gun, which is in a particular angle, infact it is the only tank in the unit with full elevated gun ... ask Matthew about it I made him do it twice to get the exact angle with lot of scratchbuilding involved ... so had to take that angle and also how many paces he made to get ontop the tank to get the approx distance plus ... I have not chosen this image as the street furniture [road signs] were limited and would have been troublesome to balance the emptiness of the street, when doing dios everything and anything has to be considered including colours and oil stains on the floor to balance the setup, especially when you have a parallel idea ... as I told you this dio is simple yet very difficult to get the right view ... we are more then relieved we ended this project and happy with the end result, there are things that might be rectified rest assured but that shall be when we make Tank Man take 2 ...

    Ivan

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    Re: Tank Man, Tiananmen,1989 China

    Post  Ray on Fri Sep 27, 2013 12:36 am

    Tank Man take 2 lol! lol! lol! 

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    Re: Tank Man, Tiananmen,1989 China

    Post  Robert on Sat Sep 28, 2013 10:30 am

    nice ivan ...very nice !! prossit

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    Re: Tank Man, Tiananmen,1989 China

    Post  Ray on Sun Nov 10, 2013 9:48 am

    So much so for EuroMilitaire "grumbling re bad awards" Evil or Very Mad 

    This GEM earned a Silver in Euro cheers 

    This GEM earned JUST a Commended in Telford Suspect 



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    Re: Tank Man, Tiananmen,1989 China

    Post  Noel Petroni on Sun Nov 10, 2013 10:33 am

    Ray wrote:So much so for EuroMilitaire "grumbling re bad awards" Evil or Very Mad 

    This GEM earned a Silver in Euro cheers 

    This GEM earned JUST a Commended in Telford Suspect 


    Ray, I've been studying the art of judging the past 15 years.  I have catalogued thousands of pages all containing relevant theories on the aspect of judging.

    Conclusion: dated 12/05/2000: location: Balzan

    Art, which can take any form be it on canvas, 3D clay subjects, Model kits etc is a very personal aura.

    Lets make one think straight: Anybody who acquired a fame in art can subsequently do shit and it will be praised and sold, even.

    Back to   Conclusion: dated 12/05/2000: location: Balzan

    Human beings develop their own personal creativity through their experiance, upbringing etc in life. This effects their point of view and creativity aspect.

    When, for example, 4 human beings view a model piece not all will have or see the same point of view. Some may not be at heart with the subject, or have even had a bad day. What I'm saying is that art cannot be judged and we have seen this in art competitions and scale model competitions.

    When I see so much inconsistancy in the awards of models presented in different shows, it is proof that not everyone sees the same art creation. So, in fact when you get a gold it does not mean your model can be the benchmark of a gold system award. NO.  It is a gold award in the opinion of the two or three judges that saw it. Same goes for a non awarded piece.

    Standing ovation
    Thank you, thank you.... you are so kind...... thank you , thank you

    Ray
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    Re: Tank Man, Tiananmen,1989 China

    Post  Ray on Sun Nov 10, 2013 10:47 am

    Noel Petroni wrote:
    Ray wrote:So much so for EuroMilitaire "grumbling re bad awards" Evil or Very Mad 

    This GEM earned a Silver in Euro cheers 

    This GEM earned JUST a Commended in Telford Suspect 


    Ray, I've been studying the art of judging the past 15 years.  I have catalogued thousands of pages all containing relevant theories on the aspect of judging.

    Conclusion: dated 12/05/2000: location: Balzan

    Art, which can take any form be it on canvas, 3D clay subjects, Model kits etc is a very personal aura.

    Lets make one think straight: Anybody who acquired a fame in art can subsequently do shit and it will be praised and sold, even.

    Back to   Conclusion: dated 12/05/2000: location: Balzan

    Human beings develop their own personal creativity through their experiance, upbringing etc in life. This effects their point of view and creativity aspect.

    When, for example, 4 human beings view a model piece not all will have or see the same point of view. Some may not be at heart with the subject, or have even had a bad day. What I'm saying is that art cannot be judged and we have seen this in art competitions and scale model competitions.

    When I see so much inconsistancy in the awards of models presented in different shows, it is proof that not everyone sees the same art creation. So, in fact when you get a gold it does not mean your model can be the benchmark of a gold system award. NO.  It is a gold award in the opinion of the two or three judges that saw it. Same goes for a non awarded piece.

    Standing ovation
    Thank you, thank you.... you are so kind...... thank you , thank you
    If ever I WAS IN DOUBT Evil or Very Mad  this PROOVES it Twisted Evil 

    You are wasting your ONE MAN SHOW TALENT playing around in your workshop Sad Sad Sad Sad Sad Sad Sad 

    bcauchi
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    Re: Tank Man, Tiananmen,1989 China

    Post  bcauchi on Sun Nov 10, 2013 6:15 pm

    No comment, just proves what i have been saying for 13 years now!! The less said the better.

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    Re: Tank Man, Tiananmen,1989 China

    Post  Noel Petroni on Sun Nov 10, 2013 8:04 pm

    bcauchi wrote:No comment, just proves what i have been saying for 13 years now!!  The less said the better.
    After Telford and what I've just heard.... I believe you are right Brian. I'm starting to think there is no such thing as judging a model piece and awarding it a degree of medal colour!

    You work hard, you pay attention to detail with a hope you are acheiving your best ever model and a sure hope to get a high award only to be disappointed and to add insult to injury you might even see a bad model getting a higher award than yours!!!!!!

    What's the point!  We all have eyes and that is the best form of judging!

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    Re: Tank Man, Tiananmen,1989 China

    Post  Ray on Sun Nov 10, 2013 8:47 pm

    Noel Petroni wrote:
    bcauchi wrote:No comment, just proves what i have been saying for 13 years now!!  The less said the better.
    After Telford and what I've just heard.... I believe you are right Brian. I'm starting to think there is no such thing as judging a model piece and awarding it a degree of medal colour!

    You work hard, you pay attention to detail with a hope you are acheiving your best ever model and a sure hope to get a high award only to be disappointed and to add insult to injury you might even see a bad model getting a higher award than yours!!!!!!

    What's the point!  We all have eyes and that is the best form of judging!
    Still we don't know what they were up against eh Evil or Very Mad  since we were not there Suspect 

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    Re: Tank Man, Tiananmen,1989 China

    Post  iCocker on Mon Nov 11, 2013 9:45 am

    No comments about judging as I had always my reservations for Telford military expertise, good or bad ... and this year's confermed it all. What I feel sorry more is for Matthew as he made such effort in this project and was something new for him and would have deserved a better medal, maybe not Gold but another good medal was well deserved then a blooody Commended IMHO especially when I saw the models awarded in the AFV classes [Mat spotted models that in Euro were high awarded in painting class and got nothing in Telford ... I think this is something to think about it] so we havbe to say to consider to be lucky that we got an award ... so right now I know how Ruina felt 2 years ago!

    Brian is right up they have something different how they relate awards then other shows, for instance at Euro, World Expo or any major comp in Europe judges are listed and are masters, Telford and AMPS [this is another show dedicated to tanks with similar bs] they are not Evil or Very Mad It's all politics ...

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    My opinion

    Post  Dottore on Mon Nov 11, 2013 10:10 am

    I honestly nowadays don't compete for any medal of award. I do my effort and enjoy having my model in for a chance. And yes obviously getting an award is always nice but it's all about the adrenaline and inspiration to me. And the shopping obviously hehe. Still our dio provoked a lot of comments and photographs so it was appreciated and that's what matters to me.
    There will always be subjective opinions in judging and yes I agree with Ivan that some shows don't have the judging expertise but I honestly was warned about that beforehand and still went ahead and still enjoyed the experience.
    Have to say also though that in terms if sheer quality of work on show there's no comparison with Euro where 95% of work on show is top class.

    Preparing to return home with a huge hole in my visa hehe

    Dottore

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    Re: Tank Man, Tiananmen,1989 China

    Post  Ray on Mon Nov 11, 2013 10:19 am

    Dottore wrote:I honestly nowadays don't compete for any medal of award. I do my effort and enjoy having my model in for a chance. And yes obviously getting an award is always nice but it's all about the adrenaline and inspiration to me. And the shopping obviously hehe. Still our dio provoked a lot of comments and photographs so it was appreciated and that's what matters to me.
    There will always be subjective opinions in judging and yes I agree with Ivan that some shows don't have the judging expertise but I honestly was warned about that beforehand and still went ahead and still enjoyed the experience.
    Have to say also though that in terms if sheer quality of work on show there's no comparison with Euro where 95% of work on show is top class.

    Preparing to return home with a huge hole in my visa hehe

    Dottore
    Lovely Jubbly that's the spirit LET IT ROLL Twisted Evil Cool Twisted Evil 

    The most important thing is that you LET NOTHING detracts you from the LOVE of the HOBBY I love you I love you I love you 

    Good one Doc Roe cheers cheers cheers 

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    Re: Tank Man, Tiananmen,1989 China

    Post  iCocker on Mon Nov 11, 2013 11:28 am

    Ray wrote:
    Dottore wrote:I honestly nowadays don't compete for any medal of award. I do my effort and enjoy having my model in for a chance. And yes obviously getting an award is always nice but it's all about the adrenaline and inspiration to me. And the shopping obviously hehe. Still our dio provoked a lot of comments and photographs so it was appreciated and that's what matters to me.
    There will always be subjective opinions in judging and yes I agree with Ivan that some shows don't have the judging expertise but I honestly was warned about that beforehand and still went ahead and still enjoyed the experience.
    Have to say also though that in terms if sheer quality of work on show there's no comparison with Euro where 95% of work on show is top class.

    Preparing to return home with a huge hole in my visa hehe

    Dottore
    Lovely Jubbly that's the spirit LET IT ROLL Twisted Evil Cool Twisted Evil 

    The most important thing is that you LET NOTHING detracts you from the LOVE of the HOBBY I love you I love you I love you 

    Good one Doc Roe cheers cheers cheers 
    I beleive these words when I see his finger nails, normally at Euro he would be biting his nails before the results are out Laughing 

    Iv

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    Re: Tank Man, Tiananmen,1989 China

    Post  Ray on Mon Nov 11, 2013 11:38 am

    iCocker wrote:
    Ray wrote:
    Dottore wrote:I honestly nowadays don't compete for any medal of award. I do my effort and enjoy having my model in for a chance. And yes obviously getting an award is always nice but it's all about the adrenaline and inspiration to me. And the shopping obviously hehe. Still our dio provoked a lot of comments and photographs so it was appreciated and that's what matters to me.
    There will always be subjective opinions in judging and yes I agree with Ivan that some shows don't have the judging expertise but I honestly was warned about that beforehand and still went ahead and still enjoyed the experience.
    Have to say also though that in terms if sheer quality of work on show there's no comparison with Euro where 95% of work on show is top class.

    Preparing to return home with a huge hole in my visa hehe

    Dottore
    Lovely Jubbly that's the spirit LET IT ROLL Twisted Evil Cool Twisted Evil 

    The most important thing is that you LET NOTHING detracts you from the LOVE of the HOBBY I love you I love you I love you 

    Good one Doc Roe cheers cheers cheers 
    I beleive these words when I see his finger nails, normally at Euro he would be biting his nails before the results are out Laughing 

    Iv
    U Viva l-FENDER lol! 

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    Re: Tank Man, Tiananmen,1989 China

    Post  el manolo on Mon Nov 11, 2013 11:47 am

    Jien ta' twemmin li l-arti, f'kull forma, m'ghanda qatt tigi ggudikata f'termini ta' kompetizzjoni. Minn l-esperjenza l'ghandi fil-qasam tal-kamp Arkitettoniku dejjem kien jidhol in-nepotizmu, politika, is-sess u kull terminu iehor li tista timmagina. L-istess jista' jinghad ghal dawn it-tip ta' kompetizzjonijiet.

    Personalment, nipreferi li dawn l-ezebizzjonijiet jigu organizzati ta' spiss minghajr ebda kompetizzjoni. Hallu l-arti ezebita tkun attivita' fejn wiehed jissoccjalizza ruhu u l-affarijiet li jkun qed jara iqanqlulu hsibijiet relatati mal-persuna nnifisha.



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    Re: Tank Man, Tiananmen,1989 China

    Post  iCocker on Mon Nov 11, 2013 11:53 am

    el manolo wrote:
    Jien ta' twemmin li l-arti, f'kull forma, m'ghanda qatt tigi ggudikata f'termini ta' kompetizzjoni. Minn l-esperjenza l'ghandi fil-qasam tal-kamp Arkitettoniku dejjem kien jidhol in-nepotizmu, politika, is-sess u kull terminu iehor li tista timmagina. L-istess jista' jinghad ghal dawn it-tip ta' kompetizzjonijiet.

    Personalment, nipreferi li dawn l-ezebizzjonijiet jigu organizzati ta' spiss minghajr ebda kompetizzjoni. Hallu l-arti ezebita tkun attivita' fejn wiehed jissoccjalizza ruhu u l-affarijiet li jkun qed jara iqanqlulu hsibijiet relatati mal-persuna nnifisha.


    Agreed on all terms!

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