Sherman Alamein - (READY!!!!!!)

    Share

    Noel Petroni
    Gold
    Gold

    Posts : 1226
    Join date : 2009-07-21
    Age : 54
    Location : Balzan - Malta

    Re: Sherman Alamein - (READY!!!!!!)

    Post  Noel Petroni on Sat Dec 26, 2009 11:57 am

    Noel I honestly can't believe you never came across this problem....
    There's always a first time! Very Happy Before I had two little kids I used to buy metal tracks for all my models! Now with these two little kids + Gonzi's higher & higher cost of living...... I have to lower my standards!!!! Crying or Very sad

    However....... thanks for the answers! I must say that after half an hour of staring and pondering at my Sherman I had the idea of your OPTION 3!! cheers

    As you said, I think it's the best option. I also like the idea of spacers to keep the track down.

    I'm looking for the colour green in my collection of paints. Reference photos and sources say that the lower hull was the dark (green) colour. The rest of the tank will be in Portland Stone.

    Isn't modelling just great!

    Regards
    Noel

    Noel Petroni
    Gold
    Gold

    Posts : 1226
    Join date : 2009-07-21
    Age : 54
    Location : Balzan - Malta

    Re: Sherman Alamein - (READY!!!!!!)

    Post  Noel Petroni on Sat Dec 26, 2009 12:00 pm

    You may think that I'm taking the mickey and pulling your legs but HONESTLY I am moved by your response and COMPLETELY IGNORING the muck i've thrown and instigated to be thrown at you

    That's the spirit Doc Roe luv ya so much

    Ray

    Ray.... I think you under estimate our Doc! Neutral He may be one to purge his brush..... but his standards have shot up in a short time!

    Regards
    Noel

    Ray
    Best in Show
    Best in Show

    Posts : 6102
    Join date : 2009-07-21
    Age : 53
    Location : Zurrieq MALTA

    Re: Sherman Alamein - (READY!!!!!!)

    Post  Ray on Sat Dec 26, 2009 12:13 pm

    Noel Petroni wrote:
    You may think that I'm taking the mickey and pulling your legs but HONESTLY I am moved by your response and COMPLETELY IGNORING the muck i've thrown and instigated to be thrown at you

    That's the spirit Doc Roe luv ya so much

    Ray

    Ray.... I think you under estimate our Doc! Neutral He may be one to purge his brush..... but his standards have shot up in a short time!

    Regards
    Noel

    Noel, I may underestimate Doc Roe at times (JOKINGLY AS ALWAYS) but I ALWAYS GIVE HIM CREDIT WHEN IT IS DUE AS DUTY CALLS Cool

    Ray affraid

    alexbb
    Best in Show
    Best in Show

    Posts : 1710
    Join date : 2009-07-21
    Age : 55

    Re: Sherman Alamein - (READY!!!!!!)

    Post  alexbb on Sat Dec 26, 2009 3:04 pm

    Noel Petroni wrote:
    Noel I honestly can't believe you never came across this problem....
    There's always a first time! Very Happy Before I had two little kids I used to buy metal tracks for all my models! Now with these two little kids + Gonzi's higher & higher cost of living...... I have to lower my standards!!!! Crying or Very sad

    However....... thanks for the answers! I must say that after half an hour of staring and pondering at my Sherman I had the idea of your OPTION 3!! cheers

    As you said, I think it's the best option. I also like the idea of spacers to keep the track down.

    I'm looking for the colour green in my collection of paints. Reference photos and sources say that the lower hull was the dark (green) colour. The rest of the tank will be in Portland Stone.

    Isn't modelling just great!

    Regards
    Noel

    careful here noel
    my reference states the colours as being portland stone and blueblack/tarmac and white.
    better check twice

    alexbb
    Best in Show
    Best in Show

    Posts : 1710
    Join date : 2009-07-21
    Age : 55

    me again

    Post  alexbb on Sat Dec 26, 2009 3:57 pm

    NOEL
    ive just checked and acoording to mike starmer "alamein and after 1942-43" the colours should be overall theatre colour desert pink z1 (not portland stone)
    disruptive theatre colour dark olive green pfi or blue black or
    dark brown the auther suggests green
    SHADOW white for colour seperation, underside of barrel
    and possibly underside of front hull though this
    cannot be confirmed by photo.
    if you compare the colour of the jeep with that of the tank you will realise that the latter has a darker shade. portalnd stone being the lighter of the two was used prior to 1942 mainly with caunter scheme.
    if you need them urtgently i have colour chips so as you can match colours

    Noel Petroni
    Gold
    Gold

    Posts : 1226
    Join date : 2009-07-21
    Age : 54
    Location : Balzan - Malta

    Re: Sherman Alamein - (READY!!!!!!)

    Post  Noel Petroni on Sun Dec 27, 2009 8:53 am

    You're quite right in some ways, Alex!!! Shocked

    Maybe you can help me out here. Maybe from what source I have and yours we can find a solution. I really would appreciate if you can help me out!!!

    Foe the benefit of others we are talking about this



    This is from the book by Dennis Oliver referring the the above pictures.... if you can bare awhile and read it....


    Here he says that the Desert Pink could have been the colour but there is no mention in official publications. He does not give mention to the dark colour but makes referance to a Crusader with a similar pattern and suggests that it could be Terracotta or black

    Also from the same book referring to the colour plate.


    Here he is "assuming" that the light colour is Portland Stone.

    The tank is of the HQ 2nd Armoured Brigade.

    I would opt for a faded desert pink and a slate grey/black lower part. What do you think.

    alexbb
    Best in Show
    Best in Show

    Posts : 1710
    Join date : 2009-07-21
    Age : 55

    Re: Sherman Alamein - (READY!!!!!!)

    Post  alexbb on Sun Dec 27, 2009 10:14 am

    no no no the light stone has nothing to do with portland stone. three different sand colours where used by the british (actually four but one was cvalled light mud)
    1 bsc 61 light stone a semi dark yellowish colour
    2 bsc 64 portland stone ( tamiya buff will do fine
    but most important of all is the colour of the version you are intersted in i.e.
    3 theatre colour desert pink z1
    so it should be desert pink, white and dark olive, blue black or dark brown
    going by the picture i think your choice would be correct if only id go for a bluishblack rather than slate grey which is green hued.
    remember the underside of the barrel is white as well
    if you need anything just drop me a line or message you should have my mobile no

    now i should have lifecolour paint for the sand if you are interested

    Tancred
    Admin

    Posts : 1078
    Join date : 2009-07-20
    Age : 45
    Location : Attard, Malta

    Re: Sherman Alamein - (READY!!!!!!)

    Post  Tancred on Sun Dec 27, 2009 2:45 pm

    Noel, here is what I found on the Warpaint Colours and Markings of British Army Vehicles book:





    Note the caption to the scheme has a question mark. Hope this does not create more confusion for you Smile

    Can lend it to you if you want as there is more info in the text....

    Tancred afro

    alexbb
    Best in Show
    Best in Show

    Posts : 1710
    Join date : 2009-07-21
    Age : 55

    Re: Sherman Alamein - (READY!!!!!!)

    Post  alexbb on Sun Dec 27, 2009 3:09 pm

    THE THREE COLOUR DIAGRAMS ALTHOUGH NOT AUTHENTIC GIVE THE DIFFERENCES BETWEEN THE SAND COLOURS USED
    THE FIRST ONE IS THE LIGHT STONE
    THE SECOND IS PORTLAND STONE
    THE THIRD IS DESERT PINK, THIS IS THE ONE FOR YOUR SHERMIE NOEL I ALSO HAVE THIS BOOK AS WELL THE FIRST ONE IN THE SERIES

    Noel Petroni
    Gold
    Gold

    Posts : 1226
    Join date : 2009-07-21
    Age : 54
    Location : Balzan - Malta

    Re: Sherman Alamein - (READY!!!!!!)

    Post  Noel Petroni on Sun Dec 27, 2009 3:36 pm

    Thanks a million fro your help, guys!!!

    So Should I use:

    Top base colour: Lifecolor UA 230 Desert Pink (I have at home)
    White for the border
    3rd lower colour ???? Would Panzer Grey be good!!??

    Regards
    Noel

    Tancred
    Admin

    Posts : 1078
    Join date : 2009-07-20
    Age : 45
    Location : Attard, Malta

    Re: Sherman Alamein - (READY!!!!!!)

    Post  Tancred on Sun Dec 27, 2009 3:51 pm

    For the lower colour I would go for a dark green. Anyway, it will be lightened up with a lot of dust.

    Tancred afro

    alexbb
    Best in Show
    Best in Show

    Posts : 1710
    Join date : 2009-07-21
    Age : 55

    Re: Sherman Alamein - (READY!!!!!!)

    Post  alexbb on Sun Dec 27, 2009 4:23 pm

    SORRY TANCRED BUT ITS BLUE BLACK, THIS WAS A SHORT RUN CAMO SCHEME. YOU HAVE TO KEEP IN MIND THAT BY MID 1942 AND MOST 1943 GREEN WAS A MUCH PRIZED AND HARD TO PRODUCE COLOUR AND SO THE BRITISH HAD TO DO WITH SUBSTITUTE SCHEMES 1 EXAMPLE IS THE EUROPEAN THEATRE VEHICLES WHICH WHERE PAINTED IN KHAKI BROWN AND BLACK
    YES NOEL I WOULD GO FOR A VERY DARK SHADE OF PANZER GREY, REMEMBER ITS A BLUE/BLACK COLOUR BSC SCC14 SO KEEP ITS A VERY DARK GREY AS IT WILL FADE SOMEWHAT WITH DUST EFFERCT/WEATHERING
    THIS IS NOT MY OPINION BUT ALSO MIKE STARMERS WHO IS CONSIDERED TO BE THE TOP EXPERT AS REGARDS TO BRITISH CAMO

    P.S. tank red ive seen tiger woods new caddy i bet his favourtite club wouldnt mind being in it

    Tancred
    Admin

    Posts : 1078
    Join date : 2009-07-20
    Age : 45
    Location : Attard, Malta

    Re: Sherman Alamein - (READY!!!!!!)

    Post  Tancred on Sun Dec 27, 2009 6:37 pm

    alex wrote:P.S. tank red ive seen tiger woods new caddy i bet his favourtite club wouldnt mind being in it
    lol! tajba eh!

    I suggested a green as the lower tank colour in the photo is milder than the colour of the jeep tyres which would be a dark grey but I am no expert and it is only guesswork on my part.

    Tancred afro

    alexbb
    Best in Show
    Best in Show

    Posts : 1710
    Join date : 2009-07-21
    Age : 55

    Re: Sherman Alamein - (READY!!!!!!)

    Post  alexbb on Sun Dec 27, 2009 7:01 pm

    Tancred wrote:
    alex wrote:P.S. tank red ive seen tiger woods new caddy i bet his favourtite club wouldnt mind being in it
    lol! tajba eh!

    I suggested a green as the lower tank colour in the photo is milder than the colour of the jeep tyres which would be a dark grey but I am no expert and it is only guesswork on my part.

    Tancred afro

    YES BUT THAN AGAIN IF YOU LOOK AT THE RUBBER OF THE TANKS RUNNING GEAR ITS THE SAME COLOUR AS THE LOWER HULL SO I WOULD STICK TO BLUE BLACK

    Noel Petroni
    Gold
    Gold

    Posts : 1226
    Join date : 2009-07-21
    Age : 54
    Location : Balzan - Malta

    Re: Sherman Alamein - (READY!!!!!!)

    Post  Noel Petroni on Mon Dec 28, 2009 8:45 pm

    Thanks, Alex!

    So I suppose the lower hull includes the wheels and sprockets all in Blue/Black. I'm going to try to spray it tomorrow morning.

    I'll post the updates as soon as it's done.

    Thanks again!!!! Very Happy

    Regards
    Noel

    alexbb
    Best in Show
    Best in Show

    Posts : 1710
    Join date : 2009-07-21
    Age : 55

    Re: Sherman Alamein - (READY!!!!!!)

    Post  alexbb on Mon Dec 28, 2009 9:25 pm

    Noel Petroni wrote:Thanks, Alex!

    So I suppose the lower hull includes the wheels and sprockets all in Blue/Black. I'm going to try to spray it tomorrow morning.

    I'll post the updates as soon as it's done.

    Thanks again!!!! Very Happy

    Regards
    Noel

    no noel i dont think so.its from the sand sheild up. the entire tank was painted in sand and camo colours added after. even if the green on other shermans was added on the sand and not the other way round. you see at this stage of the war the british did not like olive drab much.i think you are mistaking it for the crusader some of whom had the middle running gear black to look like lorries

    Noel Petroni
    Gold
    Gold

    Posts : 1226
    Join date : 2009-07-21
    Age : 54
    Location : Balzan - Malta

    Re: Sherman Alamein - (READY!!!!!!)

    Post  Noel Petroni on Tue Dec 29, 2009 10:03 am

    So this is what I did:

    I used Lifecolor Desert Pink. Than I mixed some Khaki brown to the pink to make shadows and light pink again.



    alexbb
    Best in Show
    Best in Show

    Posts : 1710
    Join date : 2009-07-21
    Age : 55

    Re: Sherman Alamein - (READY!!!!!!)

    Post  alexbb on Tue Dec 29, 2009 1:56 pm

    my modest opinion
    I THINK THE COLOUR IS SPOT ON

    Noel Petroni
    Gold
    Gold

    Posts : 1226
    Join date : 2009-07-21
    Age : 54
    Location : Balzan - Malta

    Re: Sherman Alamein - (READY!!!!!!)

    Post  Noel Petroni on Tue Dec 29, 2009 3:12 pm

    Lifecolor, in my opinion, have good colour reproduction and are also excellent to spray with.

    Question:

    a) Where the return rollers rubber? Do I have to paint them black?
    b) Was the idle roller all steel?
    b) What would the factory colour have been before the British sprayed it in pink?

    Note: In an article by Zaloga in an old Military Modelling magazine, Zaloga describes how he painted the MK11 Sherman Alamain. He, of course referred to Mike Stramer but did not want to get the colours exactly like the colour chips because the original colour would fade anyway with the harsh conditions of the desert.

    Regards
    Noel

    alexbb
    Best in Show
    Best in Show

    Posts : 1710
    Join date : 2009-07-21
    Age : 55

    Re: Sherman Alamein - (READY!!!!!!)

    Post  alexbb on Tue Dec 29, 2009 3:55 pm

    Noel Petroni wrote:Lifecolor, in my opinion, have good colour reproduction and are also excellent to spray with.

    Question:

    a) Where the return rollers rubber? Do I have to paint them black?
    b) Was the idle roller all steel?
    b) What would the factory colour have been before the British sprayed it in pink?

    Note: In an article by Zaloga in an old Military Modelling magazine, Zaloga describes how he painted the MK11 Sherman Alamain. He, of course referred to Mike Stramer but did not want to get the colours exactly like the colour chips because the original colour would fade anyway with the harsh conditions of the desert.

    Regards
    Noel

    1 6 return rollers almost entirely of rubber,so rubber colour just like the other wheels BUT JUST CHECKED WITH A BIG METAL WASHER ON THE OUTSIDE
    2 2 idle wheels yes all steel
    3 olive drab

    as regards to the colour fading away. not this particular one as it was only used for a short period before being repainted so yes for fading but not too much

    p.s.
    i have most lifecolour paints but as yet ave not had the courage to use them. what do you thin them with water???????

    alexbb
    Best in Show
    Best in Show

    Posts : 1710
    Join date : 2009-07-21
    Age : 55

    Re: Sherman Alamein - (READY!!!!!!)

    Post  alexbb on Tue Dec 29, 2009 4:18 pm


    iCocker
    Best in Show
    Best in Show

    Posts : 3172
    Join date : 2009-07-21
    Age : 42
    Location : Marsascala, Malta

    Re: Sherman Alamein - (READY!!!!!!)

    Post  iCocker on Tue Dec 29, 2009 4:56 pm

    Noel

    Never paint tyre material black that is a Mortal sin ... better start from a Panzer Grey or else use the Vallejo Aces range for Rubber Tyres, it's a very dark Grey.

    Sherman tyres were likely to chip as well and considering the terrain!

    Ivan

    Dottore
    Gold
    Gold

    Posts : 1388
    Join date : 2009-07-21
    Age : 38
    Location : Tarxien, Malta

    Return rollers....

    Post  Dottore on Thu Dec 31, 2009 1:26 am

    were all steel Alex....as seen here in two pics taken by me at the Imperial War museum London...
    Many depict them wrongly in rubber in their models...notably even a silver winning firefly in last Euro!!! Evil or Very Mad

    Dottore




    Dottore
    Gold
    Gold

    Posts : 1388
    Join date : 2009-07-21
    Age : 38
    Location : Tarxien, Malta

    Rubber colour....

    Post  Dottore on Thu Dec 31, 2009 1:28 am

    Have built and painted a number of Shermans now...(no news) and I dont like straight black for rubber (unless its a wet sherman) but have to say Dark Rubber from Panzer Aces still looks a bit too light grey IMHO...maybe try mixing it with black equal volumes....

    Have also tried Valleyo grey black and german grey which are very similar to Dark Rubber in shade....

    Dottore

    Noel Petroni
    Gold
    Gold

    Posts : 1226
    Join date : 2009-07-21
    Age : 54
    Location : Balzan - Malta

    Re: Sherman Alamein - (READY!!!!!!)

    Post  Noel Petroni on Thu Dec 31, 2009 9:09 am

    were all steel Alex....as seen here in two pics taken by me at the Imperial War museum London...
    Many depict them wrongly in rubber in their models...notably even a silver winning firefly in last Euro!!!

    Dottore

    Oh well........ I have to repaint the return rollers again Rolling Eyes Shermans.... don't you just love them! bounce

    Regards
    Noel

      Current date/time is Sun Dec 11, 2016 12:48 pm