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Tancred wrote:So shall we change the club name to SSA Society for Scale Artists?
TanKREd great one
this was a Turkish Delight +7
Noel Petroni
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TanKREd great one
this was a Turkish Delight 
Noel Petroni- Gold
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Tancred wrote:So shall we change the club name to SSA Society for Scale Artists?
I like it!!!!
Noel Petroni- Gold
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iCocker wrote:But I think you [or me] misunderstood the whole argument, we all agree it is art, but art is an expresiion and can it be judged or not ... in my opinion yes it can, as there are artists and artists, and does not mean that famed artist always produce the same result and same output ... infact one can also job from one job to another from the same artist ...
On another note looks the BOS for Telfor was won by an Italian, seems they took everything this year ...
Yes I agree that art can be judged. And we all judge art... big or small. The main difficulty is.. How is it going to be judged?
How can you say how good it is? You should judge the skill level and the creation level...... they are two different things. One art....... example.. a diorama might have a high level of skill but a modest creation and the other might have a high level of creation but modest skill.
In my opinion ..... it is the creation that wins!!! Which is not fair. I once entered an art competition and the winner was an abstract art. Probably because judges like to promote or just simply like new stuff!! Some paintings that were in the competition were amazing! One was of still life (a bowl of fruit) in water colour and made to such exact detail and realisim but was probably boring for the judges...... on the other hand splashes on a canvas seem to be more attractive. Mind you.... contestants were all grumbling!
My two entries (pencil colour detail work of Maltese bastions in Birgu) were the two of the very few out of about 200 that were sold on the first day! (five were sold if I remember). So I should assume that mine were liked immiediatly (Lm130 each!).... judged by the public and not a judge!
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That bike for best armour!!!!
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Noel
That is why I mentioned Michalangelo's David, probably the best sculpting in the world and the iconic fallic abstract monument on Luqa roundabout ... both are artistic, yet everyone can come up with his own artistic judgement
On another hand scale modelling I feel it is evolving into a miniature art form, unfortunately to the frustration of those who are rivet counters, who their reasoning is just having a perfect scaled down replica ... personally I feel there should be a balance of both ... but that is my opinion and like Tancred philosophy, everyone has one : )
We are taking this hobby tooooooo serious enjoy the evolution of it !!!!! Happy modelling!
Ivan
That is why I mentioned Michalangelo's David, probably the best sculpting in the world and the iconic fallic abstract monument on Luqa roundabout ... both are artistic, yet everyone can come up with his own artistic judgement
On another hand scale modelling I feel it is evolving into a miniature art form, unfortunately to the frustration of those who are rivet counters, who their reasoning is just having a perfect scaled down replica ... personally I feel there should be a balance of both ... but that is my opinion and like Tancred philosophy, everyone has one : )
We are taking this hobby tooooooo serious enjoy the evolution of it !!!!! Happy modelling!
Ivan
Noel Petroni- Gold
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iCocker wrote:Noel
That is why I mentioned Michalangelo's David, probably the best sculpting in the world and the iconic fallic abstract monument on Luqa roundabout ... both are artistic, yet everyone can come up with his own artistic judgement
On another hand scale modelling I feel it is evolving into a miniature art form, unfortunately to the frustration of those who are rivet counters, who their reasoning is just having a perfect scaled down replica ... personally I feel there should be a balance of both ... but that is my opinion and like Tancred philosophy, everyone has one : )
We are taking this hobby tooooooo serious enjoy the evolution of it !!!!! Happy modelling!
Ivan
Yes Ivan! There should be a balance for both... I agree! For example........ your last diorama was a kind of abstract and there was no realistic paint or colour. Nonetheless, it was exceptionally executed, very original and displaying both art and skill, and was rightfully awarded. In my opinion, when judges see something like this they go for it and forget the others. Of course, there is abstract and abstract it does not mean that abstract always wins. The Abstract at Mambra roundabout was a failure the moment it was erected ... excuse the pun!
The abstract and the realistic models should both have praise because they are after all both art.
In the end it all boils down to what the judge is thinking at that moment and if he had a good breakfast or had it off with the wife or not!!!
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Do you think so ... would like you to be in a judging panel if you have this approach as not everyone thinks like you 
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Tancred wrote:
Tajba Tancred qiesniex qedin flok Tonio Borg hux : )
Noel Petroni- Gold
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iCocker wrote:Do you think so ... would like you to be in a judging panel if you have this approach as not everyone thinks like you
I didn't understand your comment.
My last line re: judges vs wife was more of a joke. But No Way would I be a judge. But I still retain respect for those modellers who put in time to wreck their minds to judge models that are all alike!
Last edited by Noel Petroni on Sat Nov 17, 2012 7:26 am; edited 1 time in total
Noel Petroni- Gold
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On second thought
I'd rather play ping-pong 
Judges are human and human are are judges 
I'll keep building models ...... till one day........... maybe........... I'll get out of the Bronze age ... because my bronze age is older than bronze itself 
..... and get a gold!
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Excuse the misunderstanding, meant that if you thought that judges have the same views I think you have a misconception especially when the term 'abstract or fantasy' is involved ... every one has different opinions and rarely the group agrees on the same opinion without discussion ... there are judges who are in the search of mistakes, there are judges who are in search of what good the modellers did vive la differeance hux ... it's a long story, but then again the modeller has to be brave enough to go and ask the judges what made that decision good or bad as from that one evolve ... finally it does not mean they are always right but at least you can reflect on their views aswell !
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I only had one experience in International Judging at the IPMS Nationals at Donnington way back in the good old days with Phillip and another two English Dudes....we were entrusted to judge the Chopper section....we both immeaditily noticed that these said English guys just picked two or three models that took there fancy of an indescript finish and presentation and debated which one of these models was going to win the competition...they discarded the rest...good or bad...that was the tendency...still is from what I can see in the forum and will always be...Both of us were absolutely disgusted 
...Mind you ,we had our way...we put our feet down...held fast and scrutinized each and every entry to a michroschopic extent to the frustration of the other two guys and the better model won the competition....and as a cliche....not even one of the three models the English judges chose were shortlisted to win the section. ...still all in all it was such a rewarding experience...
In nannu
...Mind you ,we had our way...we put our feet down...held fast and scrutinized each and every entry to a michroschopic extent to the frustration of the other two guys and the better model won the competition....and as a cliche....not even one of the three models the English judges chose were shortlisted to win the section. ...still all in all it was such a rewarding experience... In nannu
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iCocker wrote:Excuse the misunderstanding, meant that if you thought that judges have the same views I think you have a misconception especially when the term 'abstract or fantasy' is involved ... every one has different opinions and rarely the group agrees on the same opinion without discussion ... there are judges who are in the search of mistakes, there are judges who are in search of what good the modellers did vive la differeance hux ... it's a long story, but then again the modeller has to be brave enough to go and ask the judges what made that decision good or bad as from that one evolve ... finally it does not mean they are always right but at least you can reflect on their views aswell !
Abstract art, nonfigurative art, nonobjective art, and nonrepresentational art are loosely related terms. They are similar, but perhaps not of identical meaning.
Abstraction indicates a departure from reality in depiction. This departure from accurate representation can be only slight, or it can be partial, or it can be complete.Total abstraction bears no trace of any reference to anything recognizable
First of all... let me say that I'm not trying to argue with you I'm simply discussing, as I'm sure you are doing the same. Mela, the aussie judge had told me at Euro that rest scenes are not the fashion when talking about my diorama.
Here, in my opinion is the mistake. A diorama no matter what it is, deserves to be judged for it's ability, techniques, realizim etc (I'm not saying that mine was up to standard).
If you look at the EURO rules
Class 13
PAINTED SINGLE MILITARY VEHICLE
Criteria%
Construction:20
Painting Skill:60
Difficulty:10
Presentation:10
VIGNETTES - DIORAMAS - BOXED DIORAMAS - MILITARY VEHICLE DIORAMAS - MILITARY VEHICLE ‘VIGNETTES’
Criteria%
Message:20
Composition:30
Painting Skill:30
Presentation, Groundwork
and Realism:20
ARE these laws taken into consideration at Euro? If yes than many modellers will get medals. If not that why the hell do they bother to get it on the site!
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Ara veru tas-swat int, sewwa nghidu ...
First I think we are discussing Telford not Euro, but on the other hand you had a response from an international judge might you have not agreed with his views, BUT you had the chance to ask views from the best dioramists around ... they were just near you all the time and not one of them is a snob!
Qed tifhem : )
Ivan
First I think we are discussing Telford not Euro, but on the other hand you had a response from an international judge might you have not agreed with his views, BUT you had the chance to ask views from the best dioramists around ... they were just near you all the time and not one of them is a snob!
Qed tifhem : )
Ivan
Noel Petroni- Gold
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iCocker wrote:Ara veru tas-swat int, sewwa nghidu ...
First I think we are discussing Telford not Euro, but on the other hand you had a response from an international judge might you have not agreed with his views, BUT you had the chance to ask views from the best dioramists around ... they were just near you all the time and not one of them is a snob!
Qed tifhem : )
Ivan
Sorry, man... imma ma fimtix... veru. I thought we were discussing judging! It started by the judging at Telford. Imma jekk dan il Aussie judge ghal il Rest Scenes uma boring...... dan sew..... are we not saying and as Louis also said that every model should get the same treatment? Boring u mux?
You did not comment on the Euro rules and the percentage they give vis a vis the actual judging. I'm courios on this.
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When I judge I consider the scores and use them with the teams I judged each year, I am lucky that till date I have judged with Aussies, German, British, Italian, Belgian and Dutch, and we have always agreed and tried to give All modellers what they merit ... when you have similar balanced models these statistics give you which medal he is getting.
Cannot vouch for the other judges teams and how they execute their final judgement, but rest assured that in all section all models are seen ... we spent from 3.00pm til 8.00pm to have the final results ... what happens in Telford I do not know as I have never judged there ... but I do not like a system that gives just 1 Gold, 1 Silver and 1 Bronze from each section ...
Cannot vouch for the other judges teams and how they execute their final judgement, but rest assured that in all section all models are seen ... we spent from 3.00pm til 8.00pm to have the final results ... what happens in Telford I do not know as I have never judged there ... but I do not like a system that gives just 1 Gold, 1 Silver and 1 Bronze from each section ...
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Tancred wrote:
You full of silent mischief
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Well lets continue ...
Can anyone call this judgement .... 
Telford IPMS UK 2000.. no comment..
Can anyone call this judgement ....
Telford IPMS UK 2000.. no comment..
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skyhigh wrote:Well lets continue ...
Can anyone call this judgement ....
Telford IPMS UK 2000.. no comment..
kemm wehel habs mela?
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some photos in this link
better photos some nice models too
https://www.facebook.com/pages/MMC-Hungary/163624653345#!/media/set/?set=a.10151234587163346.478244.163624653345&type=1
better photos some nice models too
https://www.facebook.com/pages/MMC-Hungary/163624653345#!/media/set/?set=a.10151234587163346.478244.163624653345&type=1
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Telford IPMS UK 2000.. no comment.
GOLD
GOLD
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alex GIMLI wrote:skyhigh wrote:Well lets continue ...
Can anyone call this judgement ....
Telford IPMS UK 2000.. no comment..
kemm wehel habs mela?
Ghomru w irmew ic-cavetta l-bahar
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We have been planning to go to the 2013 Nationals in force as it will be IPMS's 50th Anniversary.
I am sure we can participate with something which will give the other competitors a run for their money.
I am sure we can participate with something which will give the other competitors a run for their money.
