A tale of 2 Me110's

great progress mate...keep them coming eh!

Dottore

Great work Brian...keep 'em comin'

Alex

Finally an Update! (This is my favourite aircraft thread).

Amazing work Brian, these will truly be sensational!

Thanks guys, glad you like the work. hope that the next update will not be that long coming. I have worked on the wheel wells this weekend but they are very complicated and they have to be nearly entirely scratchbuilt so they take time. i only managed the basic shape this weekend and had to redo some of the parts which did not turn out right first go.

Pity the ammount of work you are putting into these beauties will be hidden once painted....... maybe you can leave one of them unpainted it is becoming a trend lately

fantastic work.

re paint dont you wingy guys think its time to start heavily weathering (where applicable) your models too, just a suggestion but everyone else is doing it and sometimes with great results

It depends on what you are building Alex, heavy weathering does not always apply. The photos will tell you. But in some cases, i guess you can really go down on the weathering.

alex GIMLI wrote:Pity the ammount of work you are putting into these beauties will be hidden once painted....... maybe you can leave one of them unpainted it is becoming a trend lately

fantastic work.

re paint dont you wingy guys think its time to start heavily weathering (where applicable) your models too, just a suggestion but everyone else is doing it and sometimes with great results

I've been subtely suggesting THIS for quite a while & even started threads like the Zero cockpit, but apart a few who responded it seems that MOST of the Wing Nuts want to remain STUCK in the "RIGHT COLOUR DEBATES" SYNDROME just like it is happenning on the Mirages' colour scheme

Brian, sorry to hijack your thread like this, especially & since you are the most "daring" IMHO of the Wing Nuts since you tried/applied almost everything in your work, from equipment to figures to weathering where appropriate, so I am not referring to you & as always whoever please forgive my fervour when talking re our hobby, as some might interpret it as "stress" which is not by all means

I just wish to see you Wing Nuts on par with the hobby's evolution re this phenomenon called weathering that is all

Bri, as Alex pointed out, why don't you be tempted to leave one unpainted wheel well for example ? Ok it may be hard to swallow this new concept & it may be easier said then done, but........

Ray, believe me the prospect is very tempting indeed,especially when you manage to bring to scratch such a bad starting kit as an old revell model but our aim is to reproduce the real aircraft so i would not be happy to see an unfinished plane in my showcase. Sorry Ray, i will gladly delve into extreme weathering if needs be but not into unpainted models. People build models for different reasons, I try to replicate a particular aircraft flown by a particular person in the minutest of detail to be best of my ability. I do not fance half finished models. Besides, my construction is never neat and I use all sorts of media when building. The unprimed, unpainted model is very rough usually so it is not something nice to look at.

bcauchi wrote:Ray, believe me the prospect is very tempting indeed,especially when you manage to bring to scratch such a bad starting kit as an old revell model but our aim is to reproduce the real aircraft so i would not be happy to see an unfinished plane in my showcase. Sorry Ray, i will gladly delve into extreme weathering if needs be but not into unpainted models. People build models for different reasons, I try to replicate a particular aircraft flown by a particular person in the minutest of detail to be best of my ability. I do not fance half finished models. Besides, my construction is never neat and I use all sorts of media when building. The unprimed, unpainted model is very rough usually so it is not something nice to look at.

Agreed 101% Bri, it is what I WOULD DO based on your sublime concept

HAQQ GHAS-SLALEB HOMOR!!!!!

Great work mate but have to continue stressing on what Ray is trying to get from you wingnuts ... weathering does not mean extreme weathering, extreme chipping etc etc ... weathering can be as little or as extreme depending to realism. Surely a cockpit after 3 weeks in the field would not look as prestine as first out of the factory. For example a simple thing that I have never saw atributed to aircraft cockpits from no one, but do the pilots clean their boots before they enter as seems yes to me, I have never seen is dust or mud footprints inside cockpits, especially aircraft that are in eastern, pacific or desert theatres ... the canvas or textile seats are never stained, ie. sweat, piss [probably I'll do that seeing an angry mob after me], dry blood [they get injured sometimes] etc etc ...

As for the debate on colours I continue stressing this, so lets get a factory finish base colour, then this aircraft is deployed to Sicily, it gets the brunt of heavy summer bleaching and scirocco winds with dust, then it goes to Russia ... and lets get the hipotisis that the same base coat remained and this aircraft survived a year of service, one would think the colour is the same RAL from factory finish?

I think we are replicating realism, and this is another thing to consider giving a comparison from a veteran plane, a new one just arrived to the front, an updated or converted one on the field or a prestine prototype ... those who where with me last Euro we got really amazed by that Mistel Dio, the aircraft paint job and subtle weathering was something very natural, showing a conversion being done in the hangar from two old veteran models into a new monster ...

Even though my opinion might not be worth squat (yet) I tend to agree with Ray and Ivan. I'd like my models to have that "been there, done that" look, it adds character and tells a story.

So I'm really looking forward to this Wednesday to learn some new weathering techniques! I'll bring the Fw190 with me so we can discuss what can be done to it (at least the cockpit at this stage).

Brian, again a 1,000 apologies for keeping YOUR thread hijacked like this, but this is one of the most if not most viewed thread so please be lenient with us for the sake of SSM's glory after all

When we joined SSM in 1986, the pre shading technique & shading various panels, pionered by Aldo if I am not mistaken, was already in vigore way back then & the way we took IPMS from 1993 onwards, by storm (meta qas kienu jafu x'laqathom, sakemm indunaw xi ghaxar snin wara) is testimony enough that it pays to always stay abreast with EVOLUTION! This is what I & Ivan are trying to instigate

As Ivan said, just simple techniques where appropriate, to make the difference, is all that is needed to make a model stand out with REALISM

That Mistel diorama @ last year's Euro was just amazing on its own merit, let alone adorned with a REALISTIC paint/weathering job

Bri, again forgive me for this, especially & since "competitions" are mentioned as I know what is your point of view re this, but in no way I or Ivan are instigating anyone to build for competitions

Great to see newbies like Wayne here, THIRSTY for Wed's lecture

... just to continue the hijacking, Ray made me wonder one thing, lately especially from British modellers I am seeing this trend of preshading tanks ... this is something probably learned from aircraft modellers but really I see no particular use on tanks ie. to get the dark shadows in joints when there is an easier method with pin washing or just doing a dark base coat at the start ... case in point to me of not using the right tool for the right subject!

Regarding competitions, I stress the same as Ray, no one should 'build for' the competition, that is nonesense ... but competitions and expos are the places to show off, learn, experience and share common artistic knowledge and have to say we grew up thanks to this apart experimenting between us ...

Will everybody stop excusing themselves for expressing their opinion!! I really like it when the discussion gets interesting and this IS interesting so i really don;t mind, on the other hand, keep at it. I have always learned a lot from you guys, actually I learned all I know from you guys so feel free to blurt it all out.

Thing is you have to watch out with weathering. You can easily overdo it and then it gets grotesque, a plane is not a tank, photos speak for themselves, they are hardly ever in the same condition, for starters they operate in a cleaner environment so i agree with you in particular cases and disagree in others. But I feel that most techniques we all use are common to all modelling spheres if adapted correctly and maybe to different degrees. However you must differentiate between aircraft with short life spans and others with longer ones and the different theaters of war. Remember my corsair,now that is an old model but it was actually very heavily weathered. If I did it today, I would have used some other techniques besides the ones i used, stuff i am seeing you afv guys use. But that WAS one hell of a weathered plane, but I go by the photos and do not like to overdo it where it was not so.

Agreed 100% Brian, many overlook weathering as a simple tool just to dirty things out, it is the complete opposite, weathering is the way of how to transmit the model to the enviornment and action one wants to show. Subtle or extreme it just show the difference from a showroom quality to an in use piece ... that what I wish we discuss and go through during this weathering workshop, for sure we shall develop some sharing between all factors of modelling ... by the way it is also similar in tank warfare, an urban ambience is weathered different from a desert one and yet again different from a rainy field [many reallly just like to put mud which is not the case anyway!]

Brian simply brilliant !!! I agree with Alex and have been telling you for so long...it would be really worth it to leave one model unpainted so one can see the amount of work and intricate detail invested in the model !
Superb craftsmanship as per usual habib
In nannu pec

I'm eagerly waiting for this to evolve. This is gonna be one of your best projects I'm sure

steve

Thanks guys, i only need TIME......and a lot of it too!!

Too late for that now Ray, did not get it in Winter DEFINITELY not now!! The only help now is that it will be too hot to go out, at least not early.

Brian I only find these may be I find something else ...I think these you already have them....

Thanks Marco but i have all those photos. That wheel bay is missing parts and in reality those pipes were not exposed. According to the detail set by Eduard, the forward area of the wheel bay (third and fourth colour photos and the b/w photo) is covered by a canvas cover like the bf109 wheel bay but i am not convinced from the framework showing in those photos. There is nowhere to tie the canvas to not like the case of the 109 where there is a frame to tie the cord to. I have not found any original wartime photos, not a single one. I shall detail it how i think it might have been according to those photos. I cannot get stuck here, i need to get this part done so that i can get the wings glued to the fuselage and move on. This is going to take longer than the 219 and i would like to finish at least another model before the world ends next year!!!