Romeo's 90mm Knight Hospitaller c1300

    Share

    Ray
    Best in Show
    Best in Show

    Posts : 6102
    Join date : 2009-07-21
    Age : 53
    Location : Zurrieq MALTA

    Romeo's 90mm Knight Hospitaller c1300

    Post  Ray on Mon Oct 04, 2010 5:42 pm

    This is Romeo's 90mm gem that me, Samwel, Harold & Ivan bought from Catania last December Twisted Evil

    As you can see from the pics, I've opted for a FACE Laughing

    Using Siligum Moulding Paste, I made a mould on Pegaso's Greek Strategos face and had a "mask" in no time at all with MS Twisted Evil

    Then, I built behind the face to obtain a rough head shape (kept getting it wrong coz I was using mine as a pattern Sad )

    In the meantime, I also "copied" the other helmet's (another helmet is supplied in the kit making it optional) inner detail, using the same method as above and am building a Saracen helmet as well Twisted Evil Twisted Evil Twisted Evil Twisted Evil Twisted Evil Twisted Evil Twisted Evil
































    Last edited by Ray on Tue Oct 05, 2010 2:48 am; edited 2 times in total

    skyhigh
    Best in Show
    Best in Show

    Posts : 4654
    Join date : 2009-07-30
    Age : 55
    Location : Qormi, Malta

    Re: Romeo's 90mm Knight Hospitaller c1300

    Post  skyhigh on Mon Oct 04, 2010 7:33 pm

    I love this subject it looks brillant......

    alexbb
    Best in Show
    Best in Show

    Posts : 1710
    Join date : 2009-07-21
    Age : 55

    Re: Romeo's 90mm Knight Hospitaller c1300

    Post  alexbb on Mon Oct 04, 2010 9:38 pm

    you shuold all start this one at the same time maybe it could be the forum's first group build

    Ray
    Best in Show
    Best in Show

    Posts : 6102
    Join date : 2009-07-21
    Age : 53
    Location : Zurrieq MALTA

    Re: Romeo's 90mm Knight Hospitaller c1300

    Post  Ray on Mon Oct 04, 2010 10:21 pm

    Marco and Alex, thanks for looking Twisted Evil

    AFAIK only Samwel has this dude under construction, ready for painting infact, but he's not starting with him anyway so not even our two would be built together Sad

    Yes Alex that would have been INTERESTING since me and Ivan are depicting him as a Hospitaller, while Samwel and Harold are doing the usual boring Templar lol!

    I'll get mine ready for Catania God Willing Twisted Evil

    jojjemannen
    Admin

    Posts : 430
    Join date : 2009-07-29
    Age : 38
    Location : Getinge

    Re: Romeo's 90mm Knight Hospitaller c1300

    Post  jojjemannen on Tue Oct 05, 2010 12:17 am

    It might be my eyesight that's wrong, but the newly constructed head looks a tad to big for the body.. Or am I wrong Ray?

    Ray
    Best in Show
    Best in Show

    Posts : 6102
    Join date : 2009-07-21
    Age : 53
    Location : Zurrieq MALTA

    Re: Romeo's 90mm Knight Hospitaller c1300

    Post  Ray on Tue Oct 05, 2010 2:26 am

    jojjemannen wrote:It might be my eyesight that's wrong, but the newly constructed head looks a tad to big for the body.. Or am I wrong Ray?

    Tiny, no there is nothing wrong with your eyesight....it is spot on Twisted Evil

    However, the reason you are seeing it the way you are seeing it, is because the head as supplied with the kit, was "squeezed" into the mail coif so that it would fit in the great helm which obviously has some "tickness" due to casting material.

    However, having said all this, I would still REVISE & MEASURE AGAIN after your keen observations, because maybe I still got stuck with my head's proportions pale

    J.Fenech
    Best in Show
    Best in Show

    Posts : 2103
    Join date : 2009-08-01
    Age : 42
    Location : MALTA - South

    Re: Romeo's 90mm Knight Hospitaller c1300

    Post  J.Fenech on Tue Oct 05, 2010 6:15 pm

    Ray wrote:
    jojjemannen wrote:It might be my eyesight that's wrong, but the newly constructed head looks a tad to big for the body.. Or am I wrong Ray?

    Tiny, no there is nothing wrong with your eyesight....it is spot on Twisted Evil

    However, the reason you are seeing it the way you are seeing it, is because the head as supplied with the kit, was "squeezed" into the mail coif so that it would fit in the great helm which obviously has some "tickness" due to casting material.

    However, having said all this, I would still REVISE & MEASURE AGAIN after your keen observations, because maybe I still got stuck with my head's proportions pale


    Joseph line of thought is the same as mine, I was too thinking that the head is looking a bid large, but may it be because it is lacking the shoulders?

    alexbb
    Best in Show
    Best in Show

    Posts : 1710
    Join date : 2009-07-21
    Age : 55

    Re: Romeo's 90mm Knight Hospitaller c1300

    Post  alexbb on Tue Oct 05, 2010 8:14 pm

    ray mind if i drop in too
    i think the head sits too high compared to the mailed one, this makes it look too large have you tried shortening the neck.

    this is my opinionin and as tancred likes to say

    "everybody has an opinion but everyone also has an a......le "

    so i could be right or else speaking from my south facing gob

    lol!

    Ray
    Best in Show
    Best in Show

    Posts : 6102
    Join date : 2009-07-21
    Age : 53
    Location : Zurrieq MALTA

    Re: Romeo's 90mm Knight Hospitaller c1300

    Post  Ray on Tue Oct 05, 2010 9:23 pm

    @ JF and @ Alex Thank you so much for the feedback......MUCH APPRECIATED and ALL POINTS WILL BE CONSIDERED before proceeding further have no doubt about that Twisted Evil

    I will measure/compare it again frontal to frontal 1st thing tomorrow afternoon after work......then I'll re check the roundness/depth of the backside of the head (have to stop using my head proportions and measurments as pattern I must keep reminding myself re that Sad ) and I will also recheck it re sit on the shoulders and will shoot a pic with the arms temporarily attached Twisted Evil

    As I said to Tiny, the sculpted head was "squeezed" into the mail coif so that it would snuggly fit the great helm Evil or Very Mad that is why the new head appears a bit on the large side pale

    Ray
    Best in Show
    Best in Show

    Posts : 6102
    Join date : 2009-07-21
    Age : 53
    Location : Zurrieq MALTA

    Re: Romeo's 90mm Knight Hospitaller c1300

    Post  Ray on Thu Oct 07, 2010 12:10 pm

    How about this head Harold?

    It is a cast item courtesy of David Grech, on my Soldiers' Hospitaller (the one blowing the horn)

    I'll also cast it (the face) in MS on a similar mould I made with Siligum Moulding Paste and also Frederick of Swabia's face.

    Ivan, come on start yours so we'll have the FOUR of them next year in Class 2 and we'll also have the 1st group build of some sort on OUR FORUM as Alex INSTIGATED Twisted Evil

    It would be cool to have them ALL slightly different, with mine and Harold's, a Hospitaller and Templar respectively sporting a face/head and Ivan's & Samwel's again a Hospitaller and Templar with Sam's figure sporting the Great Helm and knowing Ivan may have some secret up his sleeve Twisted Evil









    alexbb
    Best in Show
    Best in Show

    Posts : 1710
    Join date : 2009-07-21
    Age : 55

    Re: Romeo's 90mm Knight Hospitaller c1300

    Post  alexbb on Thu Oct 07, 2010 12:36 pm

    [quote="Ray"]How about this head Harold?

    It is a cast item courtesy of David Grech, on my Soldiers' Hospitaller (the one blowing the horn)

    I'll also cast it (the face) in MS on a similar mould I made with Siligum Moulding Paste and also Frederick of Swabia's face.

    Ivan, come on start yours so we'll have the FOUR of them next year in Class 2 and we'll also have the 1st group build of some sort on OUR FORUM as Alex INSTIGATED Twisted Evil

    It would be cool to have them ALL slightly different, with mine and Harold's, a Hospitaller and Templar respectively sporting a face/head and Ivan's & Samwel's again a Hospitaller and Templar with Sam's figure sporting the Great Helm and knowing Ivan may have some secret up his sleeve Twisted Evil



    come on guys
    imagine four masterfully painted variants of the same figure in the same palce

    iCocker
    Best in Show
    Best in Show

    Posts : 3172
    Join date : 2009-07-21
    Age : 42
    Location : Marsascala, Malta

    Re: Romeo's 90mm Knight Hospitaller c1300

    Post  iCocker on Thu Oct 07, 2010 4:49 pm

    Ah finally I am chiming in just in time as I was just finishing an article about Hospitallers ... and look what I find, so lets start from basics, I agree the second head looks much appropriate sizewise, still not that keen at the position, I think the neck is still somhow not at the right angle or long ... gosh one thing I am noticing he looks like the brother of the pirjol LOL!
    As biggining mine, no wow factor yet! I have a couple of shelf queen projects that I need to finish first and for the time being I am taking things stressless and so maybe I am contemplating to do a paintjob to keep me going ... but first my dear shelf queens unfortunetly these are AFVs but hopefully in 2 weeks time I might be able to start a figure ... so maybe grab this gem to make a quad for next Euro!
    For sure mine shall be a Hospitaller!
    Ivan

    harold stivala
    Commended
    Commended

    Posts : 62
    Join date : 2009-07-23

    Re: Romeo's 90mm Knight Hospitaller c1300

    Post  harold stivala on Thu Oct 07, 2010 5:17 pm

    Ray

    I Like the head.This looks very promising.

    Lovely idea for a group build

    Harold

    bcauchi
    Best in Show
    Best in Show

    Posts : 4063
    Join date : 2009-07-30
    Age : 55
    Location : St. Julian's

    Re: Romeo's 90mm Knight Hospitaller c1300

    Post  bcauchi on Thu Oct 07, 2010 6:36 pm

    Sorry to but in fejn ma jesghanix but IMHO the second head is undersized for the rest of the figure and looks very strange and slightly small, looks good if it were a figure from 'Men in Black'

    Ray
    Best in Show
    Best in Show

    Posts : 6102
    Join date : 2009-07-21
    Age : 53
    Location : Zurrieq MALTA

    Re: Romeo's 90mm Knight Hospitaller c1300

    Post  Ray on Thu Oct 07, 2010 7:24 pm

    No1...ALEX thanks for the INSTIGATION Twisted Evil seems to be gearing up cheers

    No2...Harold, I've cast you 4 faces to choose from which are the example above, Pegaso's Fredrick of Swabia, which are both Laruccia's, Elite's French Chauseur which is a Cannone sculpt and Andrea's Julius Ceaser whose Sculptor escapes me.......so from the hat that I had I saluted you lol!

    No3...Ivan, in 2 WEEKS (after your queens Laughing ) YOU WOULD STILL BE IN TIME FOR A GROUP BUILD, so NO MORE EXCUSES PLEASE lol!

    So I listened to the suggestions of Tiny, JF and Alex and sanded off a bit more from the head's back and rounded the back lower sides, and also repositioned the tilt + lowered the neck Twisted Evil

    In the lower pics you can see the Saracen helmet taking shape, frontal and side view Evil or Very Mad cheers I'll shoot pics to show the interior as copied by the Siligum Moulding Paste "magic" and moulded in MS, later on during the construction phase, since the digicam card ran out of space on this shoot out lol!

    No4...BRIAN YOU ARE SPOT ON MY SSM BROTHER....YOU HAVE AN EAGLE EYE cheers
















    Front View



    Side View


    iCocker
    Best in Show
    Best in Show

    Posts : 3172
    Join date : 2009-07-21
    Age : 42
    Location : Marsascala, Malta

    Re: Romeo's 90mm Knight Hospitaller c1300

    Post  iCocker on Thu Oct 07, 2010 7:40 pm

    I still need to find the WOW factor sunny

    But yes I will start mine sooner then later ... I am trying to find a niche light maybe I can do this as a black one ... oh forgot mine is already primed Twisted Evil

    Ray
    Best in Show
    Best in Show

    Posts : 6102
    Join date : 2009-07-21
    Age : 53
    Location : Zurrieq MALTA

    Re: Romeo's 90mm Knight Hospitaller c1300

    Post  Ray on Thu Oct 07, 2010 7:58 pm

    iCocker wrote:I still need to find the WOW factor sunny

    But yes I will start mine sooner then later ... I am trying to find a niche light maybe I can do this as a black one ... oh forgot mine is already primed Twisted Evil

    As long as we can fight the WHITE Templars on EQUAL terms, BLACK or RED it does not matter really.......would be cool ALL 4 of them standing next to each other in Class 2 next year or even the 4 of them in Catania cheers

    What will the changes be for a Black one? Belts? Sheild? Helmet if any or are you using the other helmet supplied? Coif? Sword scabbard attachment point?

    One word of warning.....the face looks exceptional beneath the Great Helm ONLY. Other then that, one must opt for a new face by all means as it is featurless and as I said earlier "squeezed" in the coif to accomodate the great helm. The ones I listed to Harold are the only close mouthed I have and still have to see how they appear on "him" as they might be a tad too big or a tad too small like the Hospitaller's which I showed earlier.....however it is far better to compare/measure/check "in the flesh" as pics ARE misleading sometimes especially as regards angles & height of shot pic Sad pale

    alexbb
    Best in Show
    Best in Show

    Posts : 1710
    Join date : 2009-07-21
    Age : 55

    Re: Romeo's 90mm Knight Hospitaller c1300

    Post  alexbb on Thu Oct 07, 2010 8:02 pm

    looks much much much better now

    iCocker
    Best in Show
    Best in Show

    Posts : 3172
    Join date : 2009-07-21
    Age : 42
    Location : Marsascala, Malta

    Re: Romeo's 90mm Knight Hospitaller c1300

    Post  iCocker on Thu Oct 07, 2010 8:43 pm

    Red or Black surcoat, that is a very difficult decision if one is doing a 13c Hospitaller Miles Christi.

    So for sure c.1250 the Pope granted the Knights to wear loose surcoats as the habit hindered them to fight. At that time Hospitaller Uniform was still black with a potence cross.

    Late 13c, the Pope granted them again as for battle Knights are to dress red and black for civil life, mantle shall remain black. Sargeant and man at arms remain black with white cross.

    Now back to the figure he looks to be from 1250 onwards going through the 1300s, so historically we have that difficulty for red or black. Helmet on the other hand looks a bit a late type of greathelm. Till date I have found difficulty to highlight exactly when and what makes a red surcoat or a black especially a figure that is near the transitional period.

    So I end up the usual motto when in doubt and seems no one yet answer this quest, it leaves it in the capable hands of the artist ... for sure no eight pointed Maltese cross!

    Ivan

    Ray
    Best in Show
    Best in Show

    Posts : 6102
    Join date : 2009-07-21
    Age : 53
    Location : Zurrieq MALTA

    Re: Romeo's 90mm Knight Hospitaller c1300

    Post  Ray on Thu Oct 07, 2010 11:53 pm

    iCocker wrote:Red or Black surcoat, that is a very difficult decision if one is doing a 13c Hospitaller Miles Christi.

    So for sure c.1250 the Pope granted the Knights to wear loose surcoats as the habit hindered them to fight. At that time Hospitaller Uniform was still black with a potence cross.

    Late 13c, the Pope granted them again as for battle Knights are to dress red and black for civil life, mantle shall remain black. Sargeant and man at arms remain black with white cross.

    Now back to the figure he looks to be from 1250 onwards going through the 1300s, so historically we have that difficulty for red or black. Helmet on the other hand looks a bit a late type of greathelm. Till date I have found difficulty to highlight exactly when and what makes a red surcoat or a black especially a figure that is near the transitional period.

    So I end up the usual motto when in doubt and seems no one yet answer this quest, it leaves it in the capable hands of the artist ... for sure no eight pointed Maltese cross!

    Ivan

    RED or BLACK, WE HAVE WAR WITH THE TEMPLARS SAMWEL & HAROLD lol! lol! lol! lol! lol! lol! lol!

    bcauchi
    Best in Show
    Best in Show

    Posts : 4063
    Join date : 2009-07-30
    Age : 55
    Location : St. Julian's

    Re: Romeo's 90mm Knight Hospitaller c1300

    Post  bcauchi on Fri Oct 08, 2010 6:04 am

    Now that is DEFINITELY the best choice of head, pose etc. I love your final choice, this is going to be another beauty.

    Noel Petroni
    Gold
    Gold

    Posts : 1226
    Join date : 2009-07-21
    Age : 54
    Location : Balzan - Malta

    Re: Romeo's 90mm Knight Hospitaller c1300

    Post  Noel Petroni on Fri Oct 08, 2010 6:29 am

    Beautiful figure!!!!!!!

    This is much more of a man-stuff-build compared to that sissy-stuff butterfly! Very Happy

    Anyway...... this is a beauty! I did not read the posts so anything I say or repeat is because of this.

    I would like to see you do this displayed with the helmet on. THe reason is that it gives the figure more of a warrior look and it is also a nice detail to see the eyes through the vision slots.

    Red or Black........ I can guarantee that nobody knows what the hell the Knights of Christ wore when they went into battle! So see what you have in the vetrina and if you never did Black....... than paint this one black!

    PS: Will it be for sale?

    iCocker
    Best in Show
    Best in Show

    Posts : 3172
    Join date : 2009-07-21
    Age : 42
    Location : Marsascala, Malta

    Re: Romeo's 90mm Knight Hospitaller c1300

    Post  iCocker on Fri Oct 08, 2010 8:36 am

    Noel Petroni wrote:Beautiful figure!!!!!!!

    This is much more of a man-stuff-build compared to that sissy-stuff butterfly! Very Happy

    Anyway...... this is a beauty! I did not read the posts so anything I say or repeat is because of this.

    I would like to see you do this displayed with the helmet on. THe reason is that it gives the figure more of a warrior look and it is also a nice detail to see the eyes through the vision slots.

    Red or Black........ I can guarantee that nobody knows what the hell the Knights of Christ wore when they went into battle! So see what you have in the vetrina and if you never did Black....... than paint this one black!

    PS: Will it be for sale?
    Noel, believe if one thing they had very correctly the Knight of St John wwas that they had everything jotted down ... so to be honest there is very good evidence!
    Yesterday I spend some time into thius chapter, so it was 1258 when the Pope gave them the autority to dress in red for battle. It seems this happened as inside the order the rivality between brethren-knights and brethren-sergeant was getting hotter. Sergeant in the order were not only man-at-arms but also guilded people and lesser knights, so it looks upon there was a some strict ego involved!
    According to the Pope's papers, it was instructed that also the mantel would be different, black for the Knight, brown-black for the sergeant and the rest. For battle it was red for the knights [as teh Orders Flag] and black for the rest. Crosses always white. Though I was assuming that logistics might have been difficult to change the whole army, but lets face it if there was some kind of rivalty and we know that knights had a big EGO, it looks that the change was very well accepted and fast.
    IVAN

    iCocker
    Best in Show
    Best in Show

    Posts : 3172
    Join date : 2009-07-21
    Age : 42
    Location : Marsascala, Malta

    Re: Romeo's 90mm Knight Hospitaller c1300

    Post  iCocker on Fri Oct 08, 2010 8:42 am

    Forgot to mention, those that are in love with white why instead diverse into a Teutonic one, they started off in the middleEast and were almost annihalated in the fall of Acre. That is white field with a latin black cross.

    alexbb
    Best in Show
    Best in Show

    Posts : 1710
    Join date : 2009-07-21
    Age : 55

    Re: Romeo's 90mm Knight Hospitaller c1300

    Post  alexbb on Fri Oct 08, 2010 11:45 am

    iCocker wrote:Forgot to mention, those that are in love with white why instead diverse into a Teutonic one, they started off in the middleEast and were almost annihalated in the fall of Acre. That is white field with a latin black cross.

    almost anhilated but their true demise was at the hands of the poles and latvians at the battle of tannenberg on the 15th july 1410. this part of european history is almost completely neglected by western historians. the poles and their nordic allies gave the arrogant teutons a lesson in warfare and courage and almost completely anhilated the teutinic army those that survived where ransomed for big sums of gold this made the teutonic order bankrupt with most of its surviving associates joining other religous orders.

    now for the modeller polish knights, boyars and men at arms would make an interesting choice of subjects being a cross between western and eastern armour and equipment

      Current date/time is Mon Dec 05, 2016 7:32 pm